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Awesoreno View Drop Down
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Too many people here (understandably) confuse progressive rock with prog. Plenty of bands were "progressive" for the rock scene (or at least had their progressive moments) without being prog. In fact, some bands are prog without being progressive (bands I still love, mind you, like The Tangent). I expect the shamers and usual angry posters to be here soon, questioning "credentials" and what-not. Despite the fact that many of us are not asking for certain bands to be added, but are just saying they are/were progressive at some point. It's not that big of a deal.

Edited by Awesoreno - June 30 2020 at 12:05
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Prog is short for progressive rock. There's no two ways about it. :) People always try to make it more complicated than it needs to be. There are different kinds of prog though(obviously). 
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Awesoreno View Drop Down
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Prog is a style. "Progressive" is an idea. The word "prog" comes from progressive because the style birthed in the classic era WAS progressive for the time. The two words were one and the same in, say, 1971. Not necessarily so today.

Here's a good video on what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b71l47FhSHY
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Prog is a style. "Progressive" is an idea. The word "prog" comes from progressive because the style birthed in the classic era WAS progressive for the time. The two words were one and the same in, say, 1971. Not necessarily so today.

Here's a good video on what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b71l47FhSHY

I know what you mean I just don't really agree with it(or at least I don't agree with using the two terms in a different way when we already have different subgenres for that). I will say that much prog isn't progressive in the truest sense of the word and that a lot of music that is progressive isn't considered to be progressive rock(let alone "prog") by most people(maybe some of it isn't even really rock like say Tangerine Dream). Also, a band like the Doors were very progressive in their day(same thing with the Beatles and Beach Boys)but most people typically don't consider them to be either prog or progressive rock. The same can be said for other bands typically labelled psych or even later genres such as post punk, post rock etc. Other than this site most places won't categorize them as prog or progressive rock etc. Anyway, everyone has their own definition and parameters of what they consider to be prog, progressive rock, art rock etc. I remember a bunch of fans on another site trying to differentiate between big P prog and little p prog(which is essentially the same thing you are saying). Yeah, there is retro prog(much of neo prog and probably a good amount of crossover prog)and more boundary pushing prog but it's all prog/progressive rock imo. For me it's like trying to differentiate between fusion and jazz rock fusion or metal and heavy metal. It gets to be a bit silly after a while. However, in my opinion prog is just a nickname for progressive rock(which again has many different subgenres). If you disagree fine but that's how I see it and I'm not going to budge. ;) Also, this site is called progarchives(not prog/progressive rock archives ;)). So for now I'll just stick with what wikipedia says:" Progressive rock (shortened as prog; sometimes called art rock, classical rock or symphonic rock) is a broad genre of rock music[8]  ."


As for that video, that guy was in diapers when I was a full fledged prog fan well aware of the genre, subgenres and underground. I'm no spring chicken when it comes to this stuff and I won't be lectured by 20 somethings on the semantics of prog.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 30 2020 at 13:46
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JD View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Prog is short for progressive rock. There's no two ways about it. :) People always try to make it more complicated than it needs to be. There are different kinds of prog though(obviously). 
Oh, Oh...here we go. LOL
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JD View Drop Down
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Most Outlandish?
I'd go with this.
Although I have absolutely no idea if it's even ever been discussed here.
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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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A lot of what is considered to be prog in here is not prog to me at all, for example 99% of neo prog. And a lot of what is not considered to be prog in here is prog to me.


Edited by BaldFriede - June 30 2020 at 13:58


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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A lot of what is considered to be prog in here is not prog to me at all, for example 99% of neo prog. And a lot of what is not considered to be prog in here is prog to me.

That just goes to show you that not everyone agrees on what prog is. If someone were to say that neo prog is nothing but rock with keyboards and a few long instrumental sections thrown in I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that but it wouldn't make me enjoy it any less either since I like a lot of other kinds of rock. That said, to expect all prog(or even progressive rock for those who insist on making the distinction) to be groundbreaking or truly original is pretty ridiculous imo.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 30 2020 at 14:18
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Prog is short for progressive rock. There's no two ways about it. :) People always try to make it more complicated than it needs to be. There are different kinds of prog though(obviously). 
Oh, Oh...here we go. LOL

Hey, as Billy Joel would say I didn't start the fire. Wink
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Jaketejas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A lot of what is considered to be prog in here is not prog to me at all, for example 99% of neo prog. And a lot of what is not considered to be prog in here is prog to me.



That brings up a chicken and egg question in my mind. Do you think that most progressive artists write their music first and foremost to sound proggy and fit within a subscribed genre? Or, do you think they write the music first based on their own sensibilities/inclinations and then let the chips fall where they may in terms of classification? The follow up question would be ... should they ...?
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lazland View Drop Down
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Meanwhile, in other news, Boris Johnson was attending a press conference today. When asked precisely how progressive his new “build, build, build” policy was, the Prime Minister responded that the question was absolutely typical of the backward looking BBC.

Said Johnson, “this policy is quite clearly prog. Prog, not progressive, prog. We have discussed this many times, and I have always been very clear about the difference between the two”.

The BBC later issued an apology on Twitter apologising for any offence they may have caused by confusing the two and potentially seeming progressivist, but, in defence, stated that they had examined debates on Prog Archives prior to the interview, and that the reporter in question was, understandably, none the bloody wiser.

Continued on page 94.........
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A lot of what is considered to be prog in here is not prog to me at all, for example 99% of neo prog. And a lot of what is not considered to be prog in here is prog to me.



That brings up a chicken and egg question in my mind. Do you think that most progressive artists write their music first and foremost to sound proggy and fit within a subscribed genre? Or, do you think they write the music first based on their own sensibilities/inclinations and then let the chips fall where they may in terms of classification? The follow up question would be ... should they ...?

I know what some bands do but I don't want to say who they are because I don't want to name drop. LOL
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Prog is short for progressive rock. There's no two ways about it. :) People always try to make it more complicated than it needs to be. There are different kinds of prog though(obviously). 

If it were that easy, it wouldn't be so complicated. Tongue
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Prog is short for progressive rock. There's no two ways about it. :) People always try to make it more complicated than it needs to be. There are different kinds of prog though(obviously). 

If it were that easy, it wouldn't be so complicated. Tongue

LOL
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By the way, my personal opinion is that it's just words. The idea that words have an objective meaning on which everyone should agree is just bonkers. Words grow chaotically like a jungle and either you can't see where they go, or where they come from, or neither.
The easiest thing for me is to subscribe to prog being whatever the PA teams decide, and everything they reject is non-prog. Because it's their job to decide that and not mine, and I'm fine with that.


Edited by Lewian - June 30 2020 at 14:47
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Jaketejas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A lot of what is considered to be prog in here is not prog to me at all, for example 99% of neo prog. And a lot of what is not considered to be prog in here is prog to me.



That brings up a chicken and egg question in my mind. Do you think that most progressive artists write their music first and foremost to sound proggy and fit within a subscribed genre? Or, do you think they write the music first based on their own sensibilities/inclinations and then let the chips fall where they may in terms of classification? The follow up question would be ... should they ...?


I know what some bands do but I don't want to say who they are because I don't want to name drop. LOL


Hey I can respect that.   
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Jaketejas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A lot of what is considered to be prog in here is not prog to me at all, for example 99% of neo prog. And a lot of what is not considered to be prog in here is prog to me.



That brings up a chicken and egg question in my mind. Do you think that most progressive artists write their music first and foremost to sound proggy and fit within a subscribed genre? Or, do you think they write the music first based on their own sensibilities/inclinations and then let the chips fall where they may in terms of classification? The follow up question would be ... should they ...?


I know what some bands do but I don't want to say who they are because I don't want to name drop. LOL


Hey I can respect that.   

I think it’s a good question, though. Who should they serve first and foremost, the fans who have come to expect a certain degree of progginess in the music, or should they be “true to themselves” and write what they want whenever they want?
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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^I think most bands do what they want to do. If the fans happen to like the music fine but I doubt many(if any)make music with fans in mind before themselves. I'm sure Fripp didn't say King Crimson must make music only King Crimson fans would like. No, Fripp made music that he wanted to make and that the musicians in their various incarnations were able to make(imo). 
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Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

A lot of what is considered to be prog in here is not prog to me at all, for example 99% of neo prog. And a lot of what is not considered to be prog in here is prog to me.



That brings up a chicken and egg question in my mind. Do you think that most progressive artists write their music first and foremost to sound proggy and fit within a subscribed genre? Or, do you think they write the music first based on their own sensibilities/inclinations and then let the chips fall where they may in terms of classification? The follow up question would be ... should they ...?


I know what some bands do but I don't want to say who they are because I don't want to name drop. LOL


Hey I can respect that.   

I think it’s a good question, though. Who should they serve first and foremost, the fans who have come to expect a certain degree of progginess in the music, or should they be “true to themselves” and write what they want whenever they want?

When "progginess" becomes a kind of formula it does in my opinion automatically fail to be "progressive". "Progressive" is what can't be put into a formula. This is what the teams in the different categories here apparently sometimes fail to understand, else a lot of decisions would have been different.


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Jaketejas View Drop Down
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For your own personal tastes, do you find that sometimes bands “progress” with the times to a point where you no longer care for their particular new sound? For example, if you look at your poll from yesterday, most people here seem to like that early Prog sound.
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