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Libor10 
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 Posted: July 28 2020 at 17:51 |
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This time it's Yes 90125...
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 18:37 |
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Invisible Touch is proggier imo. You have the Domino suite and the Brazilian.
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Sacro_Porgo
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 19:16 |
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Interesting question. Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight feel like they aught to swing the vote towards Genesis, but everything else (except the Brazilian I guess) on Invisible Touch is pure pop. Meanwhile 90125 doesn't ever go full hog like IT does with the two long tracks, but a lot of the songs have subtle proggy touches, like the intro to Changes, or the freakish guitar solo in Owner Of A Lonely Heart. But then none of it really gets outside the wheelhouse of a pop album. I guess I'll go with 90125 here, but not by a ton.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 19:24 |
 Sacro_Porgo wrote:
Interesting question. Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight feel like they aught to swing the vote towards Genesis, but everything else (except the Brazilian I guess) on Invisible Touch is pure pop. Meanwhile 90125 doesn't ever go full hog like IT does with the two long tracks, but a lot of the songs have subtle proggy touches, like the intro to Changes, or the freakish guitar solo in Owner Of A Lonely Heart. But then none of it really gets outside the wheelhouse of a pop album. I guess I'll go with 90125 here, but not by a ton. |
I never really thought much about the guitar solo in "owner" and I certainly never thought of it as "freakish" but now that you mention it it is a bit in your face. I'll have to listen to it more closely next time. I think even Alex Lifeson mentioned it during the HOF induction. Anyway, to those I'll add the instrumental cinema with the flanging bass by Chris Squire and the track Hearts which is sort of like a mini awaken imo. Also, while not prog I consider leave it to be progressive with the way the vocals are multi-tracked.
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Sacro_Porgo
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 19:36 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
Interesting question. Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight feel like they aught to swing the vote towards Genesis, but everything else (except the Brazilian I guess) on Invisible Touch is pure pop. Meanwhile 90125 doesn't ever go full hog like IT does with the two long tracks, but a lot of the songs have subtle proggy touches, like the intro to Changes, or the freakish guitar solo in Owner Of A Lonely Heart. But then none of it really gets outside the wheelhouse of a pop album. I guess I'll go with 90125 here, but not by a ton. |
I never really thought much about the guitar solo in "owner" and I certainly never thought of it as "freakish" but now that you mention it it is a bit in your face. I'll have to listen to it more closely next time. I think even Alex Lifeson mentioned it during the HOF induction. Anyway, to those I'll add the instrumental cinema with the flanging bass by Chris Squire and the track Hearts which is sort of like a mini awaken imo. Also, while not prog I consider leave it to be progressive with the way the vocals are multi-tracked. |
Totally!
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 19:47 |
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
Interesting question. Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight feel like they aught to swing the vote towards Genesis, but everything else (except the Brazilian I guess) on Invisible Touch is pure pop. Meanwhile 90125 doesn't ever go full hog like IT does with the two long tracks, but a lot of the songs have subtle proggy touches, like the intro to Changes, or the freakish guitar solo in Owner Of A Lonely Heart. But then none of it really gets outside the wheelhouse of a pop album. I guess I'll go with 90125 here, but not by a ton. |
I never really thought much about the guitar solo in "owner" and I certainly never thought of it as "freakish" but now that you mention it it is a bit in your face. I'll have to listen to it more closely next time. I think even Alex Lifeson mentioned it during the HOF induction. Anyway, to those I'll add the instrumental cinema with the flanging bass by Chris Squire and the track Hearts which is sort of like a mini awaken imo. Also, while not prog I consider leave it to be progressive with the way the vocals are multi-tracked. |
Totally! |
Which part are you agreeing with? 
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Sacro_Porgo
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 20:08 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
Interesting question. Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight feel like they aught to swing the vote towards Genesis, but everything else (except the Brazilian I guess) on Invisible Touch is pure pop. Meanwhile 90125 doesn't ever go full hog like IT does with the two long tracks, but a lot of the songs have subtle proggy touches, like the intro to Changes, or the freakish guitar solo in Owner Of A Lonely Heart. But then none of it really gets outside the wheelhouse of a pop album. I guess I'll go with 90125 here, but not by a ton. |
I never really thought much about the guitar solo in "owner" and I certainly never thought of it as "freakish" but now that you mention it it is a bit in your face. I'll have to listen to it more closely next time. I think even Alex Lifeson mentioned it during the HOF induction. Anyway, to those I'll add the instrumental cinema with the flanging bass by Chris Squire and the track Hearts which is sort of like a mini awaken imo. Also, while not prog I consider leave it to be progressive with the way the vocals are multi-tracked. |
Totally! |
Which part are you agreeing with? |
All of it, lol.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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iluvmarillion
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 20:08 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
You should have a "they both suck" choice. |
Couldn't have put it better.
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dr wu23
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 20:29 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
You should have a "they both suck" choice. |
^this
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 20:35 |
So Yes and Genesis should have continued to make prog in the eighties while they went to soup kitchens during the day and worked at mcdonalds at night and recorded albums in between?
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Catcher10
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 21:09 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
So Yes and Genesis should have continued to make prog in the eighties while they went to soup kitchens during the day and worked at mcdonalds at night and recorded albums in between? |
Clearly PA would have preferred that scenario.......I have said many times before that all bands should be paid for their efforts, in both these cases it took Yes and Genesis to change with the times and the cash was growing on trees for them. Progressive rock was DEAD people in the mid 80's to 90's. It was a dying formula, the good thing is that both of these excellent albums kept a lot of the prog flavor of the 70's.
It was about time these bands got the pay and recognition they deserved, the prog community was not going to make them millionaires.
I love both albums, matter of fact just the other day I spun both 90125 and IT and as much as I love 90125, I give the nod to Genesis as I think it is more proggy. Invisible Touch album cover art is more proggy too, especially the embossed feel of the jacket.
I do give the Beatles credit for not going 100% progressive/prog as they knew they would lose the girl factor in their popularity....and lose a lot of money.
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Awesoreno
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 23:11 |
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If you listen to the expanded edition of 90125, there's a little prog/AOR gem called Make It Easy that I think was written by Rabin. The intro of which has been used as a prelude to Owner when Yes/ARW played it live in recent years.
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M27Barney
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 23:19 |
dougmcauliffe wrote:
Another yes and genesis poll.... and more complaining about invisible touch.... never change progarchives |
Well what if we invert my original reposte? Taylor Swift's Knicker drawer v Celine Dion's aged guppy? On topic. 90125 is AOR and IT pop shyte so 90125 is clearly more proggy by genre definition...
Edited by M27Barney - July 28 2020 at 23:20
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Hrychu
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 23:21 |
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the answer is none
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On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.
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M27Barney
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Posted: July 28 2020 at 23:38 |
Catcher10 wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
So Yes and Genesis should have continued to make prog in the eighties while they went to soup kitchens during the day and worked at mcdonalds at night and recorded albums in between? |
Clearly PA would have preferred that scenario.......I have said many times before that all bands should be paid for their efforts, in both these cases it took Yes and Genesis to change with the times and the cash was growing on trees for them. Progressive rock was DEAD people in the mid 80's to 90's. It was a dying formula, the good thing is that both of these excellent albums kept a lot of the prog flavor of the 70's.
It was about time these bands got the pay and recognition they deserved, the prog community was not going to make them millionaires.
I love both albums, matter of fact just the other day I spun both 90125 and IT and as much as I love 90125, I give the nod to Genesis as I think it is more proggy. Invisible Touch album cover art is more proggy too, especially the embossed feel of the jacket.
I do give the Beatles credit for not going 100% progressive/prog as they knew they would lose the girl factor in their popularity....and lose a lot of money. |
Banks and Rutherford were rich through inheritance alone, so they could have created their own record label, kicked out collins and brought in Bruford or Palmer and got Hackett back or a young Stolt...bobs yer uncle....
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Sacro_Porgo
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Posted: July 29 2020 at 00:22 |
M27Barney wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
So Yes and Genesis should have continued to make prog in the eighties while they went to soup kitchens during the day and worked at mcdonalds at night and recorded albums in between? |
Clearly PA would have preferred that scenario.......I have said many times before that all bands should be paid for their efforts, in both these cases it took Yes and Genesis to change with the times and the cash was growing on trees for them. Progressive rock was DEAD people in the mid 80's to 90's. It was a dying formula, the good thing is that both of these excellent albums kept a lot of the prog flavor of the 70's.
It was about time these bands got the pay and recognition they deserved, the prog community was not going to make them millionaires.
I love both albums, matter of fact just the other day I spun both 90125 and IT and as much as I love 90125, I give the nod to Genesis as I think it is more proggy. Invisible Touch album cover art is more proggy too, especially the embossed feel of the jacket.
I do give the Beatles credit for not going 100% progressive/prog as they knew they would lose the girl factor in their popularity....and lose a lot of money. |
Banks and Rutherford were rich through inheritance alone, so they could have created their own record label, kicked out collins and brought in Bruford or Palmer and got Hackett back or a young Stolt...bobs yer uncle.... |
I really doubt either Yes or Genesis was struggling to make ends meet by the late 70s. Sure they weren't probably selling the way they did five years earlier, but with what they sold five years earlier I'd imagine they felt pretty comfortable financially. After all, bands that don't have the funds to try a bold, unmarketable experiment like TFTO or TLLDOB generally don't try it, or if they do the label forces a last minute single out of them. Prog or not, the directions Yes and Genesis took in the 80s were direct results of what the musicians involved (or at least the majority of them) wanted to play, had they been chasing the money you would have never gotten Cinema or Domino, it would have been variations on Land Of Confusion and Owner Of A Lonely Heart (plus some ballads) straight through.
And who can blame them? Is it not generally agreed that by the time Genesis lost Hackett and Yes did Tormato that they'd passed their prog rock prime? Their interests changed with the times, and aside from some stragglers like Rush and Floyd, the times did not favor concepts, epics, odd time signatures, or a severe lack of radio friendly singles (and even Floyd had singles with The Wall). If you don't like the direction they went, cool. But to imply that they went pop in order to sell out, I just think that's a tired argument and doesn't probably hold up to their bank histories.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: July 29 2020 at 00:49 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
Interesting question. Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight feel like they aught to swing the vote towards Genesis, but everything else (except the Brazilian I guess) on Invisible Touch is pure pop. Meanwhile 90125 doesn't ever go full hog like IT does with the two long tracks, but a lot of the songs have subtle proggy touches, like the intro to Changes, or the freakish guitar solo in Owner Of A Lonely Heart. But then none of it really gets outside the wheelhouse of a pop album. I guess I'll go with 90125 here, but not by a ton. |
I never really thought much about the guitar solo in "owner" and I certainly never thought of it as "freakish" but now that you mention it it is a bit in your face. I'll have to listen to it more closely next time. I think even Alex Lifeson mentioned it during the HOF induction. Anyway, to those I'll add the instrumental cinema with the flanging bass by Chris Squire and the track Hearts which is sort of like a mini awaken imo. Also, while not prog I consider leave it to be progressive with the way the vocals are multi-tracked. |
Great posts! I'm almost certain the "freakish" guitar effect you guys are talking about on Owner's solo is a harmonizer pedal. I always say it sounds like dragons yelling at one another, lol.
dr wu23 wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
You should have a "they both suck" choice. |
^this |
Yeah but that's too easy, guys, lol  .
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Sacro_Porgo
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Posted: July 29 2020 at 01:00 |
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
Interesting question. Domino and Tonight Tonight Tonight feel like they aught to swing the vote towards Genesis, but everything else (except the Brazilian I guess) on Invisible Touch is pure pop. Meanwhile 90125 doesn't ever go full hog like IT does with the two long tracks, but a lot of the songs have subtle proggy touches, like the intro to Changes, or the freakish guitar solo in Owner Of A Lonely Heart. But then none of it really gets outside the wheelhouse of a pop album. I guess I'll go with 90125 here, but not by a ton. |
I never really thought much about the guitar solo in "owner" and I certainly never thought of it as "freakish" but now that you mention it it is a bit in your face. I'll have to listen to it more closely next time. I think even Alex Lifeson mentioned it during the HOF induction. Anyway, to those I'll add the instrumental cinema with the flanging bass by Chris Squire and the track Hearts which is sort of like a mini awaken imo. Also, while not prog I consider leave it to be progressive with the way the vocals are multi-tracked. |
Great posts! I'm almost certain the "freakish" guitar effect you guys are talking about on Owner's solo is a harmonizer pedal. I always say it sounds like dragons yelling at one another, lol.
dr wu23 wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
You should have a "they both suck" choice. |
^this |
Yeah but that's too easy, guys, lol . |
Thanks! That sounds right, but I'd go as far as to say the playing and structure of the solo is pretty freakish as well. It just pops in out of nowhere and feels like whoever's playing it is having a seizure. I say that as the highest of compliments.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: July 29 2020 at 10:30 |
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
So Yes and Genesis should have continued to make prog in the eighties while they went to soup kitchens during the day and worked at mcdonalds at night and recorded albums in between? |
Clearly PA would have preferred that scenario.......I have said many times before that all bands should be paid for their efforts, in both these cases it took Yes and Genesis to change with the times and the cash was growing on trees for them. Progressive rock was DEAD people in the mid 80's to 90's. It was a dying formula, the good thing is that both of these excellent albums kept a lot of the prog flavor of the 70's.
It was about time these bands got the pay and recognition they deserved, the prog community was not going to make them millionaires.
I love both albums, matter of fact just the other day I spun both 90125 and IT and as much as I love 90125, I give the nod to Genesis as I think it is more proggy. Invisible Touch album cover art is more proggy too, especially the embossed feel of the jacket.
I do give the Beatles credit for not going 100% progressive/prog as they knew they would lose the girl factor in their popularity....and lose a lot of money. |
Banks and Rutherford were rich through inheritance alone, so they could have created their own record label, kicked out collins and brought in Bruford or Palmer and got Hackett back or a young Stolt...bobs yer uncle.... |
I really doubt either Yes or Genesis was struggling to make ends meet by the late 70s. Sure they weren't probably selling the way they did five years earlier, but with what they sold five years earlier I'd imagine they felt pretty comfortable financially. After all, bands that don't have the funds to try a bold, unmarketable experiment like TFTO or TLLDOB generally don't try it, or if they do the label forces a last minute single out of them. Prog or not, the directions Yes and Genesis took in the 80s were direct results of what the musicians involved (or at least the majority of them) wanted to play, had they been chasing the money you would have never gotten Cinema or Domino, it would have been variations on Land Of Confusion and Owner Of A Lonely Heart (plus some ballads) straight through.
And who can blame them? Is it not generally agreed that by the time Genesis lost Hackett and Yes did Tormato that they'd passed their prog rock prime? Their interests changed with the times, and aside from some stragglers like Rush and Floyd, the times did not favor concepts, epics, odd time signatures, or a severe lack of radio friendly singles (and even Floyd had singles with The Wall). If you don't like the direction they went, cool. But to imply that they went pop in order to sell out, I just think that's a tired argument and doesn't probably hold up to their bank histories. |
It wasn't about album sales so much as pressure from the record industry. Tormato was actually Yes's first platinum album and the same thing with And then there were three by Genesis. To this day none of the albums before it have gone platinum(according to the RIAA) and with Yes only Fragile, The Yes Album and CTTE have sold as many(or more than Tormato)from the seventies(not counting classic Yes).
Sure sales have something to do with it but in my opinion it was more about being fashionable and staying current. If they continued making prog albums then they probably would have sold less but that's kind of besides the point.
Some bands wanted to move on anyway and try different things(as you suggest) but that would vary from band to band. In the case of Gentle Giant it was probably much more a case of pressure from the record industry but I can't imagine that not being the case with most of these bands in general to at least some degree. Rush were an exception because it was written in their contract that they would maintain artistic control of the music so they had the freedom that many other bands probably didn't.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 29 2020 at 10:36
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Catcher10
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Posted: July 29 2020 at 10:45 |
Sacro_Porgo wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
So Yes and Genesis should have continued to make prog in the eighties while they went to soup kitchens during the day and worked at mcdonalds at night and recorded albums in between? |
Clearly PA would have preferred that scenario.......I have said many times before that all bands should be paid for their efforts, in both these cases it took Yes and Genesis to change with the times and the cash was growing on trees for them. Progressive rock was DEAD people in the mid 80's to 90's. It was a dying formula, the good thing is that both of these excellent albums kept a lot of the prog flavor of the 70's.
It was about time these bands got the pay and recognition they deserved, the prog community was not going to make them millionaires.
I love both albums, matter of fact just the other day I spun both 90125 and IT and as much as I love 90125, I give the nod to Genesis as I think it is more proggy. Invisible Touch album cover art is more proggy too, especially the embossed feel of the jacket.
I do give the Beatles credit for not going 100% progressive/prog as they knew they would lose the girl factor in their popularity....and lose a lot of money. |
Banks and Rutherford were rich through inheritance alone, so they could have created their own record label, kicked out collins and brought in Bruford or Palmer and got Hackett back or a young Stolt...bobs yer uncle.... |
I really doubt either Yes or Genesis was struggling to make ends meet by the late 70s. Sure they weren't probably selling the way they did five years earlier, but with what they sold five years earlier I'd imagine they felt pretty comfortable financially. After all, bands that don't have the funds to try a bold, unmarketable experiment like TFTO or TLLDOB generally don't try it, or if they do the label forces a last minute single out of them. Prog or not, the directions Yes and Genesis took in the 80s were direct results of what the musicians involved (or at least the majority of them) wanted to play, had they been chasing the money you would have never gotten Cinema or Domino, it would have been variations on Land Of Confusion and Owner Of A Lonely Heart (plus some ballads) straight through.
And who can blame them? Is it not generally agreed that by the time Genesis lost Hackett and Yes did Tormato that they'd passed their prog rock prime? Their interests changed with the times, and aside from some stragglers like Rush and Floyd, the times did not favor concepts, epics, odd time signatures, or a severe lack of radio friendly singles (and even Floyd had singles with The Wall). If you don't like the direction they went, cool. But to imply that they went pop in order to sell out, I just think that's a tired argument and doesn't probably hold up to their bank histories. |
Has nothing to do with them selling out, I don't think they did that nor do I imply they did. What they did was changed musical direction, I also do not like saying they went the "pop" route, I'd rather say they minimized the prog attitude.....Either way you look at it they became rich with this change, probably even richer, which is perfectly fine by me as the music was still excellent, great music is great music.
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