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Egberto Gismonti

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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 01 2020 at 08:52
Hi,

If you have never seen a master guitarist talk about music, you got to see this ... it has a sort of "history" of the music in Brazil, and how it happened ... "a few years earlier stuff like mine would not even get an ear" (badly translated!) ... but it also explains a lot of his learning, when he was a child ... and about the instruments he plays, mostly a guitar and piano.

There is, here, an understanding about the music he created that is rare in a lot of musicians, and explains something that is much further out than just "jazz" or "rock" or some other commercial definition that has a tendency to kill a lot of music ... this concert is really special ... and I hope you can understand some Portuguese or Spanish ... because this is not translated ... and in many ways, because IT IS NOT TRANSLATED, it seems to speak even louder and tell you something about music, that we do not understand, or often fail to accept and realize.

It is an experience that has no words, and its beauty is not defined by a solo ... there is more to music than that ... a LOT MORE.

I hope you all can enjoy this ... this is by far, one of the best things I have heard discussed ... it explains the music so well ... and how it came about ... 

Enjoy it!

... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2020 at 15:56
The Brazilians definitely liked their Jazz and Acoustic Guitar music and of course their MPB.  I picked up a few things when I was there, but definitely I was looking more for Rock and Progressive Rock.  But one of the cd's I picked up there is from Raphael Rabello.  He was an acoustic guitar virtuoso who unfortunately died at the age of 32 in 1995.  The cd I have is Todos os Tons.

Here is a YouTube from him which you might like:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2020 at 19:53
Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

...But one of the cd's I picked up there is from Raphael Rabello.  He was an acoustic guitar virtuoso who unfortunately died at the age of 32 in 1995. 
...

Hi,

Super nice and very enjoyable. I wish I knew a bit more of the rock scenes in Brazil, and considering how a lot of music goes so far over there, it is weird that rock music is not a bigger thing over there, with the exception that if anything, virtuosity is definitely appreciated in Brazil ... not so much in rock music in America though, where numbers mean more than virtuosity!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2020 at 04:35
Thanks for posting this. Gismonti is a hero. Unfortunately I don't know Spanish but I have a go with my Italian to get at least a bit of what he's saying (the subtitles help a lot).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2020 at 06:28
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

...But one of the cd's I picked up there is from Raphael Rabello.  He was an acoustic guitar virtuoso who unfortunately died at the age of 32 in 1995. 
...

Hi,

Super nice and very enjoyable. I wish I knew a bit more of the rock scenes in Brazil, and considering how a lot of music goes so far over there, it is weird that rock music is not a bigger thing over there, with the exception that if anything, virtuosity is definitely appreciated in Brazil ... not so much in rock music in America though, where numbers mean more than virtuosity!

It is not so easy to find something like pure rock in Brazil, meaning Brazilian pure rock bands.  I spent a lot of time there between around 2001 - 2005 and lived there as well for a whole year, fortunately I also had a girlfriend who was Brazilian, she was a flight attendant so we travelled a lot on weekends since she had the flights taken care of, free to where ever she was going and I would tag along for free as she was allowed to take a family member on flights.  It was a win - win as I would take care of the rest.

Anyway digressing, but you do have to picture Brazil in your mind and beyond tourism.  Before you land in Sao Paulo you are flying for about 1/2 an hour across concrete buildings all squeezed next to each other, it feels like it would never stop before you finally land.  Mexico City is the same.  Population of the Sao Paulo region was 44+ Million in 2014.  Under bridges as you drive to your home you drive past Favellas (Ghettos), it's like a whole village that lives under a bridge, for electricity they all have jerry rigged connections to the power lines and as you drive past you hear noise of people, tv's blaring if there is a soccer game... banging and music and so on and on pretty much across all those places.  And, it's these areas that plan for their next Carnival as soon as the previous carnival finishes they plan for the next.  Carnival schools is what they call them.  These compete with each other in a sense that each year they have a vote after the Carnival of who came 1st, 2nd, 3rd and who finished bottom.  The bottom two get relegated to division 2 and someone gets promoted.  So for the vast majority of the Population it really is Samba that they listen to year round.  The same happens in Rio and across other large cities in Brazil.  You could say that probably 90+% of the population of Brazil live in about 10 large cities and the rest becomes sporadic small places throughout the Amazon and more and more tribal.

Income wise when I was there, if you worked at a large factory (european, american, japanese or korean) your average monthly income was around say $400/500 per month and that was your middle class.  If you worked in an office you start earning more up to say 2-3000 per month and higher as you go up the chain.  so that's your higher class.  The higher class office workers and so on also tend to have a live in housekeeper that cooks and cleans for them.  It's considered normal over there and it does pass some of the income downwards.

So now to music stores, MPB (Musica Populeira Brasileira) you could buy a cd for about 3-5 dollars and imports up to 30-40 dollars.  Now put that into perspective to income :)  And I think you can see who listens to what.   An Alberto Gismonti most likely was from a middle class or higher growing up and had more access to world music and hence his development and growth.   But it is more of an exception rather than a rule and I think it is why it is hard to find much what sounds like pure rock or progressive rock to our ears.  Just imagine the cost of an imported keyboard for someone that perhaps lives on $500 per month.  It's almost impossible for him to have access to it.

This most probably applies to the rest of South America as well.

Most of Brazilian music is street instruments and to me when I listen to their popular cd's I am amazed how an artist often can switch from a pop sounding song to the next one that sounds like jazz to the next one that rocks and the next one a ballad and the next one bit of samba mixed in.  It's like fusing everything they have heard into one album.  :)

I will see if I can find some in my collection to post as examples.

Best regards




Edited by Spaciousmind - October 13 2020 at 07:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2020 at 07:58
Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

...
Just imagine the cost of an imported keyboard for someone that perhaps lives on $500 per month.  It's almost impossible for him to have access to it.

This most probably applies to the rest of South America as well.

Most of Brazilian music is street instruments and to me when I listen to their popular cd's I am amazed how an artist often can switch from a pop sounding song to the next one that sounds like jazz to the next one that rocks and the next one a ballad and the next one bit of samba mixed in.  It's like fusing everything they have heard into one album.  :)
...

Hi,

How well I remember my days in Brazil (Assis and Araraquara in the state of Sao Paulo), and in those days, one of the things that I brought with me to America was Maria Betania (Carcara!) ... and to this day I get angry at the fatso in "Apocalypse Now" for not using her song ... and also for a lot of the music that became better known later with Aerto, Flora Purim, Milton Nascimento and many others. 

What I do remember most about Brazil, was that it was a country of have's and havenot's ... and there was no in between ... and the chance for the havenot's to gain a step up ... probably impossible, and for the same reason that you mention in rock music ... who would afford a keyboard that expensive and be able to spend time learning it, on top of it, before being able to play it somewhere. For that matter, I don't even see anyone have a piano, except the better to do academics that we met ... who loved to show off that they were more educated with an instrument or two in their house!

But, in the end, it is also a gross failure of the record producing factories that will not invest anything in a group of folks that shows some promise ... and waits for them to "develop" before giving them a chance ... one of the greatest and best parts of rock music, and it is so in a lot of Europe and America is how many bands start from nothing ... and are later able to get a new guitar, for example ... where as in a place like Latin America, you are not going to buy a nice Fender guitar ... because that kind of money is prohibitive where here in America ... you can go get one right now!

It's a mess, and yeah, the chances of hearing a good band from those countries are really small ... and it would take the parents of one rich kid to buy the instruments for everyone else (so to speak!!!), because I am not sure they can get gigs at the local bar circuit like you can here to get started, even if nowadays, you just make your own CD and try to sell it. But, again ... you need a reasonable computer and some equipment that is not cheap ... last I saw, some DAW's had a very unreasonable price!

In a way, it makes it easier to see why Europe and America did it ... they share the wealth a little more ... but I remember days, of chasing crumbs on the floor ... and trust me ... I don't want to be there again, and I certain don't want the worst part of it ... being called a "rat" for it!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spaciousmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 06:24
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

In a way, it makes it easier to see why Europe and America did it ... they share the wealth a little more ... but I remember days, of chasing crumbs on the floor ... and trust me ... I don't want to be there again, and I certain don't want the worst part of it ... being called a "rat" for it!

All true but that makes it all the more interesting when you find some gems.  Your post is making me go through what I have and not listened to in years.  I forgot about Baden Powell, this is from Images on Guitar cd song Blues a Volonte.  I would consider his music very progressive considering this was 1971 and he had been playing music since 1961.  I am sure you know a lot more about Baden Powell than I do :)  He was another guitar virtuoso.



Here also Conversação Comigo Mesmo of the same cd.



You know we mentioned all the negatives about Brazil, but in all honesty it is still the most beautiful place in the world, the country is beautiful, a paradise and the people are also some of the most beautiful people I have ever met, very welcoming.  I mean the places are just out of this world.  Foz do Iguacu.  Fernando do Noronha feeding lizards the size of a squirrel who were begging at your feet for you to drop a scrap of food while you are eating outside on a restaurant table, swimming with dolphins, scuba diving to a sunken shipwreck and seeing hammerhead sharks around you lol and turtles on the beaches, Manaus and the Rio Negro merging with the Amazon river pure black tea water from Negro (from the fauna) merging with the light brown water of the Amazon and and being shocked when a big pink dolphin jumps out of the water while you are standing at the banks of the Rio Negro (yes folks Pink Dolphins exist! Wink )  I could go on and on, bullet ants the thickness of your little finger, having to stop at a sand road while a 20 ft green snake crawls across and disappears on the other side. Holding sloths that hug you like babies, Toucans in the wild, not forgetting blue and green parrots flying all around you.  Monkey trying to grab and open the girlfriends handbag to see what it could steal.  Catching Piranhas with a stick, a piece of rope, a hook and a piece of meat on the end of it.  Caymans... eating Cayman tail and snake in an amazon tribal village... Needless to say it truly is the most interesting and beautiful place in the world.  People can't starve there its almost impossible as you can just pick up fruits from trees like mangoes which grow all over the place.  I could go on and on...  If I were 30 years younger I would live there but then again I would have to be one of the more privileged to be able to see it all. 

Did I mention that when you wade in the Rio Negro to swim the water is so dark that you can't see your body below your stomach... eerie feeling as you don't know what is in the water.. lol especially after just seeing a pink dolphin a few feet away and knowing its probably full of piranhas.

BTW... typing all this while listening to "Conversação Comigo Mesmo"  Tongue


Edited by Spaciousmind - October 14 2020 at 06:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2020 at 09:30
Hi,

Being in Assis and Araraquara, we were somewhat separated from most, being an academic, and dad working the university and getting his famous name on the way of literature. We didn't get to see a whole lot, but we knew it was there, and did get to see some things here and there that were more visible, but the stories were forever told and heard.

All in all, yes, it is a beautiful place, and was probably more so in those days (up until Oct '65) before the rape of the Amazon really got its start ... but already there had been some great moments ... I got to see Pele in Araraquara dance through everyone to score when he was a kid, and it was neat. Other than that, the only thing that helped were the music, which was heard loud and clear, even if some of the jazz names were not quite as well known, I got to know Jobim, and Villa Lobos, and others for example. And it was through their recordings that I got a mind to check other players.

All in all, not a bad time, although (personally) it was not fun since the kids in school were laughing at our clothing as mom was some sort of a Portuguese traditionalist ... but all in all, it was fine. I was too young though and being there from 9 to 15 is tough, and it was for this youngster to adjust. The music helped tremendously, at least in a mind type of situation! We had a lot of classical music already including many operas, and Renata Tebaldi and Mario del Monaco did not escape my ears! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hellogoodbye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2020 at 04:35
A few Gismonti's favorite albums : Em famila, No Caipira, Academia De Danças, Carmo... etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2020 at 09:53
Originally posted by hellogoodbye hellogoodbye wrote:

A few Gismonti's favorite albums : Em famila, No Caipira, Academia De Danças, Carmo... etc.

Hi,

If I had to name the ten top albums in my life, NO CAIPIRA would be there, and probably be at the top!

BTW, (weird bit) ... at the time, in Santa Barbara at the City College, I was taking a literature class and one book that we read was DORIS LESSING'S Briefing for a descent into hell ... and for some reason that piece of music fits as a soundtrack for the film in my mind of that story ... if you have never checked it, the story goes "backwards" in one respect and forward on the next ... quite beautifully written!

Somehow, it just helped describe my experience in Brazil!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hellogoodbye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2020 at 18:58
Hi; I've just read from Doris Lessing a short book about cats...To me Ernesto Gismonti is more like a classical musician. It makes me think of the romanian composer Georges Enesco who could play two instruments (violin and piano) with the same virtuosity.
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