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Pink Floyd and the Great Labeling Wars of '20
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SteveG View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 14 2020 at 11:34
I'm afraid that this is all part of our new "Cancel Culture." Confused
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Interestingly....Floyd is listed here as Psychedelic Space Rock and not in one of the named prog genres.
"Pink Floyd are listed on the Prog Archives site as belonging to the Psychedelic/Space Rock sub-genre. In reality, that period ended in the early 1970's, and they became so much more than that. For anyone wishing to explore the era of 1970's musical behemoths bestriding the rock world, The Pink Floyd are simply an essential part of that musical journey."
So why aren't they in prog related where they would fit well.....or crossover or whatever?

At any rate they are as progressive as many other bands that are on PA that get asked about their progressive aspects all the time.
Wink
And that is what I posted on page 1, the only viable question/discussion here is what sub category should Pink Floyd be listed under......not if they are progressive or not, which is ludicrous at a base level of thinking.

I doubt re-categorizing a band is a practice each genre team would approve, that would open up a massive can of worms.....PA would prolly implode Shocked Nuke
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Interestingly....Floyd is listed here as Psychedelic Space Rock and not in one of the named prog genres.
"Pink Floyd are listed on the Prog Archives site as belonging to the Psychedelic/Space Rock sub-genre. In reality, that period ended in the early 1970's, and they became so much more than that. For anyone wishing to explore the era of 1970's musical behemoths bestriding the rock world, The Pink Floyd are simply an essential part of that musical journey."
So why aren't they in prog related where they would fit well.....or crossover or whatever?

At any rate they are as progressive as many other bands that are on PA that get asked about their progressive aspects all the time.
Wink
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

DSotM commercial?
Of course, especially if you compare TDSotM with, for example, Fripp & Eno "(No Pussyfooting)" the album released the same year.

Commercial is a derogatory term that Pink Floyd does not deserve. 
Comparing DSotM with an inaccessible album like No Pussyfooting is just wrong. Apples and oranges. 
SteveG already put "apples and oranges" (i.e. "Hotel California" and "Born to Run") in his post as an attempt to prove that TDSotM is an "experimental" album, which it is but just a little and strictly within the given framework of a commercial album such as TDSotM has been carefully created to be.
I took "(No Pussyfooting)" as an example, maybe it's extreme, okay, here I replace it with "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", also released in 1973, and what? Can LTiA be as much a "comfortable" album for the masses as TDSotM? Of course not.
And this type of reasoning is the crux of the problem. We as prog fans naturally compare DSotM with the more outre prog albums that we like, such as LTiA or Hot Rats, which puts DSotM into a very commercial view. But that doesn't detract from the fact that a bizarre instrumental like "On The Run" is experimental, or that the wordless "Great Gig In The Sky" is avant garde. Commerciality has nothing to do with genre.
Well, "The Dark Side of the Moon" is just slightly more "experimental" than e.g. "I Robot" by The Alan Parsons Project.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And this type of reasoning is the crux of the problem. We as prog fans naturally compare DSotM with the more outre prog albums that we like, such as LTiA or Hot Rats, which puts DSotM into a very commercial view. But that doesn't detract from the fact that a bizarre instrumental like "On The Run" is experimental, or that the wordless "Great Gig In The Sky" is avant garde. Commerciality has nothing to do with genre.

The same puerile mind who would equate DSotM as only a 'psychedelic' album, would also say Hotel California is only a 'country rock' album -- which it is not (the band members of The Eagles stated implicitly they moved away from their previous country rock sound). It's rather like saying Floyd's "Money" is only a blues song unless, of course, you understand the composition itself is far more sophisticated than being just this or that, particularly considering the use of Musique Concrète with a nod to Pierre Schaeffer and Stockhausen, not to mention most of the song is played in 7/4. 

That the song went to #10 as a single in the States mirrors the listening habits of record buyers at the time. At one time or another during 1973 these albums hit #1: the Moody Blues' Seventh Sojourn, War's The World is a Ghetto, Alice Cooper's Billion Dollar Babies, Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy, George Harrison's Living in the Material World, The Allman Brother's Brothers and Sisters, Elton John's Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Tull's A Passion Play, and Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. And as teenagers, we listened to all of them, and played them one after another. I guess we weren't "rock purists". LOL



 
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Pink Floyd do Pink Floyd music. Accepting this makes them about as progressive and innovative as it gets. Whoever wants to exclude the progressive (as in "not easy to categorise") element from prog will contribute to the death of prog.
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

DSotM commercial?
Of course, especially if you compare TDSotM with, for example, Fripp & Eno "(No Pussyfooting)" the album released the same year.

Commercial is a derogatory term that Pink Floyd does not deserve. 
Comparing DSotM with an inaccessible album like No Pussyfooting is just wrong. Apples and oranges. 
SteveG already put "apples and oranges" (i.e. "Hotel California" and "Born to Run") in his post as an attempt to prove that TDSotM is an "experimental" album, which it is but just a little and strictly within the given framework of a commercial album such as TDSotM has been carefully created to be.
I took "(No Pussyfooting)" as an example, maybe it's extreme, okay, here I replace it with "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", also released in 1973, and what? Can LTiA be as much a "comfortable" album for the masses as TDSotM? Of course not.
And this type of reasoning is the crux of the problem. We as prog fans naturally compare DSotM with the more outre prog albums that we like, such as LTiA or Hot Rats, which puts DSotM into a very commercial view. But that doesn't detract from the fact that a bizarre instrumental like "On The Run" is experimental, or that the wordless "Great Gig In The Sky" is avant garde. Commerciality has nothing to do with genre.

Edited by SteveG - September 14 2020 at 05:13
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

"What is Prog?"

This!

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Boboulo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:
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Boboulo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Scorpius Scorpius wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Maybe DSotM is not a difficult listen, but commercial it is not.
Of course it is. And not only that TDSotM is (great) commercial album, especially if you compare it to any "progressive rock" album released the same year or earlier, but it's also commercial compared to all Pink Floyd's previous and later albums; in fact, only "The Wall" is even more commercial than “The Dark Side of the Moon”.

...Looks like someone had more than a Momentary Lapse of Reason
I didn't even consider their 80's albums.
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Maybe DSotM is not a difficult listen, but commercial it is not.
Of course it is. And not only that TDSotM is (great) commercial album, especially if you compare it to any "progressive rock" album released the same year or earlier, but it's also commercial compared to all Pink Floyd's previous and later albums; in fact, only "The Wall" is even more commercial than “The Dark Side of the Moon”.

...Looks like someone had more than a Momentary Lapse of Reason
The most dangerous man in America.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Maybe DSotM is not a difficult listen, but commercial it is not.
Of course it is. And not only that TDSotM is (great) commercial album, especially if you compare it to any "progressive rock" album released the same year or earlier, but it's also commercial compared to all Pink Floyd's previous and later albums; in fact, only "The Wall" is even more commercial than “The Dark Side of the Moon”.
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@Boboulo
Svetonio, why do you show your location as Europe, can't you be more specific............Like Serbia?? When is your "Definitive Guide To My Twisted Views On Progressive Music" book going to be released? 
What you should explain to everyone is how you were trashing this site and its members/admins on Hoffman Forums because PA lists Miles Davis KoB on the PA Top Albums.
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

DSotM commercial?
Of course, especially if you compare TDSotM with, for example, Fripp & Eno "(No Pussyfooting)" the album released the same year.

Commercial is a derogatory term that Pink Floyd does not deserve. 
Comparing DSotM with an inaccessible album like No Pussyfooting is just wrong. Apples and oranges. 
SteveG already put "apples and oranges" (i.e. "Hotel California" and "Born to Run") in his post as an attempt to prove that TDSotM is an "experimental" album, which it is but just a little and strictly within the given framework of a commercial album such as TDSotM has been carefully created to be.
I took "(No Pussyfooting)" as an example, maybe it's extreme, okay, here I replace it with "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", also released in 1973, and what? Can LTiA be as much a "comfortable" album for the masses as TDSotM? Of course not.

I don't think DSotM is a comfortable album, i don't play it when I have friends over LOL
Maybe DSotM is not a difficult listen, but commercial it is not. 

I also think whoever listens to Eagles, also listens to some Bruce Sprigsteen, but not Pink Floyd. 
I always find it annoying how many times I heard Floyd and DSotM referred to as stoner music. It can't get more belittling than that. Confused
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

DSotM commercial?
Of course, especially if you compare TDSotM with, for example, Fripp & Eno "(No Pussyfooting)" the album released the same year.

Commercial is a derogatory term that Pink Floyd does not deserve. 
Comparing DSotM with an inaccessible album like No Pussyfooting is just wrong. Apples and oranges. 
SteveG already put "apples and oranges" (i.e. "Hotel California" and "Born to Run") in his post as an attempt to prove that TDSotM is an "experimental" album, which it is but just a little and strictly within the given framework of a commercial album such as TDSotM has been carefully created to be.
I took "(No Pussyfooting)" as an example, maybe it's extreme, okay, here I replace it with "Larks' Tongues in Aspic", also released in 1973, and what? Can LTiA be as much a "comfortable" album for the masses as TDSotM? Of course not.

Edited by Boboulo - September 14 2020 at 01:37
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

DSotM commercial?
Of course, especially if you compare TDSotM with, for example, Fripp & Eno "(No Pussyfooting)" the album released the same year.

Commercial is a derogatory term that Pink Floyd does not deserve. 
Comparing DSotM with an inaccessible album like No Pussyfooting is just wrong. Apples and oranges. 
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Boboulo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

DSotM commercial?
Of course, especially if you compare TDSotM with, for example, Fripp & Eno "(No Pussyfooting)" the album released the same year.
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

A simple way to answer this question is by trying to place an album like DSotM alongside other albums of it's time. Can it be placed alongside other hit albums like Hotel California, Frampton Comes Alive, Born To Run or Rumors?If it doesn't sit alongside those albums confortably, why?
Can a country-rock album such "Hotel California" be put down "comfortably" alongside those 'Rock' albums you mentioned? If one is a genre purist, no.

In what world does Hotel California not sit comfortably next to Rumors and Born To Run? So it has a little country influence, so what? It also has the title track, Life In The Fast Lane, and Victim Of Love which are really about as far from country as the Eagles ever got.
If you can "comfortably" to listening to a country-rock album such "Hotel California", you're not a 'Rock' purist, or vice versa. And If you are not a genre purist, you'll love "Hotel California" and "Born to Run" as well as "The Dark Side of the Moon" which is also, regardless its "psychedelic" nature, just another 70's commercial album that was created for the masses as a pleasant music to listen to.

what's a rock purist? The way it sounds, it just singles narrow-mindedness. DSotM commercial? A friend of mine was telling me she used to break up parties by playing it. I told her she wouldn't have got rid of me this way. LOL

Commercial has such a negative connotation, people use it to say that something is bad. 

Steve answered his own question to make a point. I think you missed it. 
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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

A simple way to answer this question is by trying to place an album like DSotM alongside other albums of it's time. Can it be placed alongside other hit albums like Hotel California, Frampton Comes Alive, Born To Run or Rumors?If it doesn't sit alongside those albums confortably, why?
Can a country-rock album such "Hotel California" be put down "comfortably" alongside those 'Rock' albums you mentioned? If one is a genre purist, no.

In what world does Hotel California not sit comfortably next to Rumors and Born To Run? So it has a little country influence, so what? It also has the title track, Life In The Fast Lane, and Victim Of Love which are really about as far from country as the Eagles ever got.
If you can "comfortably" to listening to a country-rock album such "Hotel California", you're not a 'Rock' purist, or vice versa. And If you are not a genre purist, you'll love "Hotel California" and "Born to Run" as well as "The Dark Side of the Moon" which is also, regardless its "psychedelic" nature, just another 70's commercial album that was created for the masses as a pleasant music to listen to.
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