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Is 'Sgt. Pepper' overrated?

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2020 at 07:00
Hi,

Sometimes, given the way history is taught in school, people have no understanding as to how different things were 50 years ago ... and worse ... many don't care and think their opinion is more important.

When you do not have the "history" and "perspective" on history, a lot of these things lose some of their ability to stand ... and it is sad ... at the time, it was all they had to do what they did ... so go ahead, be silly and say that Mozart is an idiot and acid-hole for what he created, and on top of it, stupid because he wanted to do something different, and could only do it on bars, drunk and cavorting with anyone. He saw it differently and we don't care ... we think he is over this or that or under this or that ... 

this is one of the main reasons why so much of what I write is related to the time and place ... and it is a constant battle against the "commercialists" because it is like ... they don't believe in time and a place for anything ... so much for history in school! Or literature or any of the arts for that matter!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2020 at 07:03
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Sometimes, given the way history is taught in school, people have no understanding as to how different things were 50 years ago ... and worse ... many don't care and think their opinion is more important.

When you do not have the "history" and "perspective" on history, a lot of these things lose some of their ability to stand ... and it is sad ... at the time, it was all they had to do what they did ... so go ahead, be silly and say that Mozart is an idiot and acid-hole for what he created, and on top of it, stupid because he wanted to do something different, and could only do it on bars, drunk and cavorting with anyone. He saw it differently and we don't care ... we think he is over this or that or under this or that ... 

this is one of the main reasons why so much of what I write is related to the time and place ... and it is a constant battle against the "commercialists" because it is like ... they don't believe in time and a place for anything ... so much for history in school! Or literature or any of the arts for that matter!

LOL
again, why take this thread so seriously? 
You seem angry... or something. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Enchant X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2020 at 07:26
I just listened to it ... yes and no Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judahbenkenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2020 at 08:07
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Sometimes, given the way history is taught in school, people have no understanding as to how different things were 50 years ago ... and worse ... many don't care and think their opinion is more important.

When you do not have the "history" and "perspective" on history, a lot of these things lose some of their ability to stand ... and it is sad ... at the time, it was all they had to do what they did ... so go ahead, be silly and say that Mozart is an idiot and acid-hole for what he created, and on top of it, stupid because he wanted to do something different, and could only do it on bars, drunk and cavorting with anyone. He saw it differently and we don't care ... we think he is over this or that or under this or that ...†

this is one of the main reasons why so much of what I write is related to the time and place ... and it is a constant battle against the "commercialists" because it is like ... they don't believe in time and a place for anything ... so much for history in school! Or literature or any of the arts for that matter!


Personally, I prefer to have fun with the music I like, rather than making a philosophy of life out of it. After all I don't think that my life depends on it. But to each his own; it's a free world we live in
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2020 at 09:55
Originally posted by judahbenkenobi judahbenkenobi wrote:

 
...
Personally, I prefer to have fun with the music I like, rather than making a philosophy of life out of it. After all I don't think that my life depends on it. But to each his own; it's a free world we live in

Hi,

I would imagine that many folks out there playing music, take it very seriously ... it is probably why they get as far as they do. I'm not sure that so many of the artists/musicians do not take their art seriously ... now, if the audience doesn't care, that's another story isn't it ... but what gives them the right to throw stones when it doesn't matter to them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judahbenkenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2020 at 10:15
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by judahbenkenobi judahbenkenobi wrote:

...
Personally, I prefer to have fun with the music I like, rather than making a philosophy of life out of it. After all I don't think that my life depends on it. But to each his own; it's a free world we live in


Hi,

I would imagine that many folks out there playing music, take it very seriously ... it is probably why they get as far as they do. I'm not sure that so many of the artists/musicians do not take their art seriously ... now, if the audience doesn't care, that's another story isn't it ... but what gives them the right to throw stones when it doesn't matter to them?


Throw stones? I don't think expressing an indifferent opinion about a fan's comment is throwing stones at an artist. I seriously doubt Paul or Ringo would be offended about something I posted as a reply to another person's post.

I am a Beatles' fan and I know they took their work very seriously, that's why they are here, in the center of this discussion, because they did something tremendously influential. And I concur with you, every artist takes what they do very seriously, whether they do it for a living or not.

Edited by judahbenkenobi - September 16 2020 at 10:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote POTA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2020 at 11:10
Originally posted by Yallghurt Yallghurt wrote:

I wouldn't say overrated, because it is actually a great album (most Beatles albums are), but I tend to agree with other people that Revolver and White Album are much more elaborate. Eleanor Rigby surprised me so much when I first listened to it that I still remember where I was and what I was doing.


White album isnít even close to being more elaborate. It was a bunch of half baked ideas just tossed into an album. Little regard for fleshing out the tracks into something other than almost noodling around.

Back in the USSR, Glass Onion, Wild Honey Pie, Bungalow Bill, Everybodyís Got Something to Hide, Piggies, Birthday, Donít Pass Me By, and Good Night are just bad for their standard. Most people would include Revolution 9 there too, but I give it a pass for at least being experimental with some effort put into it.

Many others feel not fleshed out like Dear Prudence, Martha My Dear, I Will, Julia, Long Long Long, Sexy Sadie, Mother Natureís Son, Cry Baby Cry, and Honey Pie.

Most the others are fine. A few like While My Guitar, Blackbird, and Happiness is a Warm Gun I guess are ďgreatĒ even though I donít care for them anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2020 at 01:18
"No".

Next question, please. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spacegod87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 09:15
Probably, but that doesn't make the album a lesser album, or the songs bad just because it's talked about too much. 
Still a stellar creation, from top to bottom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 11:01
Good to see so many varying opinions!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2020 at 13:33
Is 'Sgt. Pepper' overrated? Probably. That's because the Beatles are treated like demigods, which means that everything they did was given the Midas touch. Thus, it is inevitable that their music is overrated.
 
 
I was thinking about thinking but it really didn't get me very far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2020 at 02:38
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Is 'Sgt. Pepper' overrated? Probably. That's because the Beatles are treated like demigods, which means that everything they did was given the Midas touch. Thus, it is inevitable that their music is overrated.
 
 
That's exactly what I meant when I said:
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

To be fair, when you have a band like the Beatles with a massive maniacal fanbase their stuff is always going to be a little overated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 00:23
Originally posted by Zeph Zeph wrote:

The problem with a question like this is that it doesn't differentiate between the music and the influence it had. Steven Wilson has been mentioned a few times and fwiw., he has said Sgt. Pepper is one of the most influential albums ever recorded, if not the top one. When he says he finds the album overrated, it's from a musical perspective, not the influence it had. He puts other albums by The Beatles ahead of Sgt. Pepper and would not put it anywhere near the top of his all-time favorites. He does not agree with all the lists that put the album as the greatest album of all time. Maybe on a list of most influential, but not the best. And why argue with that? It's musical taste you are arguing. I don't see how him mentioning the album multiple times in his music makes a difference. He is a musician and was born in the year one of the most influential albums ever were released. That doesn't mean he can't disagree with those who rank it as the best album of all time

I also find Sgt. Pepper overrated as a musical album, but I'm not a big fan of Beatles, so it can hardly be a surprise. As an influential album it's probably not overrated.

I think George Martin stated that it was to his regret that Sargent Peppers didn't include Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever. Put those two into the album and take out Lovely Rita and When I'm Sixty-four, you not only have the greatest Beatles recording you have the greatest pop/rock record of all time that not even Steven Wilson could complain about (similarly Brian Wilson regretted not including Good Vibrations on Pet Sounds; he eventually included it on Smile but it doesn't belong there).


Edited by iluvmarillion - September 20 2020 at 01:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2020 at 23:42
In a way it is. There are 4 really great songs on it

A Day In The Life kick started prog rock
She's Leaving Home is achingly beautiful 
With A Little Help From My Friends and LSD make up the four.

Really the best Beatles album is a decent compilation that includes Eleanor Rigby, Penny Lane, It's All Too Much , I Am The Walrus etc. However it was the first time a band had turned rock music into art and so that alone makes it massively important. At least its nowhere near as dull as Dark Side Of The Moon (waits for the brick bats to fly Smile)



Edited by richardh - September 21 2020 at 23:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spacegod87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2020 at 00:06
^ I actually agree about 'Dark side of the moon'. There's a few good songs on it, but ultimately it's kind of bland.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A Crimson Mellotron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2020 at 01:01
Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:

I just listened to it ... yes and no Tongue

Quite an exact answer! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jeffro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2020 at 06:36
I think any iconic album contains at least some element of overratedness. That just goes along with the territory for monster albums such as this one.

For me, Sgt Pepper's is not overrated. I consider it to be about as perfect a Beatles record as you can get. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 23 2020 at 18:31
The Beatles have been one of my top favorite bands since I started (properly) listening to music 14 years ago. But I'd say it's slightly overrated. In the musical aspect, well, it's very subjective, but I think there are albums that are as good that don't get nowhear near the same attention. I mean, I won't even compare to an "obscure" artists like Magma or something that is avant garde, etc. which will obviously never be commercially successful. But I think "Arthur" by The Kinks is as good and doesn't get nowher near the same attention. Or Days of Future Passed by Moody Blues. I'm not saying they're better, but they could be easily considered as good and it's a similar genre and time period. Also, I think Abbey Road and the White Album are the greatest Beatles albums, slightly above Sgt. Pepper's and Revolver, but it's sort of being established that Sgt. Pepper's was their number one, though that seems to be changing.

When it comes to "influence" and "innovation", it's not like you can measure it, but I don't see why Revolver wasn't more groundbreaking. They're very similar and, well, Revolver came out before. And albums like In the Court of the Crimson King, Black Sabbath, Ramones, etc. basically created genres so they can be considered as innovative as well. 

But it's an excellent album and that's all that matters, overrated or not, it's a must for anyone that has a mild interest in rock music like any Beatle album from the '66-'69 period. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 00:55
Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:

The Beatles have been one of my top favorite bands since I started (properly) listening to music 14 years ago. But I'd say it's slightly overrated. In the musical aspect, well, it's very subjective, but I think there are albums that are as good that don't get nowhear near the same attention. I mean, I won't even compare to an "obscure" artists like Magma or something that is avant garde, etc. which will obviously never be commercially successful. But I think "Arthur" by The Kinks is as good and doesn't get nowher near the same attention. Or Days of Future Passed by Moody Blues. I'm not saying they're better, but they could be easily considered as good and it's a similar genre and time period. Also, I think Abbey Road and the White Album are the greatest Beatles albums, slightly above Sgt. Pepper's and Revolver, but it's sort of being established that Sgt. Pepper's was their number one, though that seems to be changing.

When it comes to "influence" and "innovation", it's not like you can measure it, but I don't see why Revolver wasn't more groundbreaking. They're very similar and, well, Revolver came out before. And albums like In the Court of the Crimson King, Black Sabbath, Ramones, etc. basically created genres so they can be considered as innovative as well. 

But it's an excellent album and that's all that matters, overrated or not, it's a must for anyone that has a mild interest in rock music like any Beatle album from the '66-'69 period. 

Rubber Soul arguably was really when The Beatles started to 'wake up'. I think the point of Sg Peppers is that it expressed an intention to treat an album like a work of art and not just a bunch of potential hits for the radio . It fired up a lot of young musicians and lighted the blue touch paper for progressive rock. However in itself it's not an amazing album and I would even question whether any Beatles album is really that good. Often they released their best songs independently of albums which diluted their albums quality imo.


Edited by richardh - September 24 2020 at 00:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 24 2020 at 01:44
It's not overrated, and has to be considered within the context of the time it was made. It's not an album I listen to these days, although I should probably go back to it at some point. I first heard it in the 80's when I was about 17, so it's difficult for me to guage just just how 'important' an album it was, but again considering when it was made and what was happening in rock music at the time, I can accept that it probably was a very important album, in terms of rock music evolved into the 70's.
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