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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

For me, prog proper started with ItCotCK by KC. All else was formative.

I agree.....many bands had interesting things going on but it came together with KC's first.


btw....this conversation has taken place here many times along with what is prog rock and what isn't.
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

I think that The Nice, The Moody Blues and also Procol Harum were the beginnings of Progressive music, even though they didn't call it that, then. I think that in  King Crimson, it was solidified and became what it was to become.  And I love Family, but a little later than this time period (Fearless and Bandstand)


Right. The fact that KC's debut was rather succesful at the time probably had a lot to do with it too. It might not have been the very first but it did put prog on the map and made it official. It was definitely a turning point in the early days of the genre.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 04 2020 at 10:51
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

For me, prog proper started with ItCotCK by KC. All else was formative.


I agree.....many bands had interesting things going on but it came together with KC's first.


btw....this conversation has taken place here many times along with what is prog rock and what isn't.
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but at least Svetonio is not involved in this one!

Edited by SteveG - October 04 2020 at 12:12
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I'll diverge from the common thought and suggest "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club Band."   It used Mellotron before ITCOTCK, had amazing cover art, and used very innovative recording techniques.  It was also hugely popular and ignited public's appetite for more of this type of music.  
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I've heard this stated before but I don't find Sgt. Peppers music to be progressive and there's no Mellotron on it. Egsds.
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I've heard this stated before but I don't find Sgt. Peppers music to be progressive and there's no Mellotron on it. Egsds.

Sorry, you are correct, Steve!  I was mixing my albums. 

Sometime in late 1966 EMI Studios hired a mahogany-finished Mellotron Mark II which was immediately put to use on the "Strawberry Fields Forever" sessions. It remained on hire throughout 1967 and it subsequently used to great effect on the Zombies Odessey And Oracle album. It’s likely this same Mellotron was used for the September 1967 recording of “Flying” for the Magical Mystery Tour soundtrack but then sometime after that, possibly when the year’s lease was up, it was returned to Streetly Electronics.



Edited by cstack3 - October 04 2020 at 15:14
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Yeah, strangely the Beatles after introducting the Mellotron never fully embraced it. Probably because they could afford real orchestra accompaniment. Thank goodness that King Crimson couldn't!
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Yeah, strangely the Beatles after introducting the Mellotron never fully embraced it. Probably because they could afford real orchestra accompaniment. Thank goodness that King Crimson couldn't!

True but they might have used it more than you think they did. Did you know that the acoustic guitar introduction on "the continuing story of Bungalo Bill" was actually a mellotron? 
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by egillhardar egillhardar wrote:

Firstly, I have to admit I have not read all the extensive writings here on this site but I wanted to ask if prog "began" when The Nice played in England and various countries across Europe and the U.S. from '67 to '69? I think I read somewhere that, at the time they really opened the eyes of many young musicians to the possibilities of merging classical music and rock which eventually spawned what we refer to as progressive rock today.

I am aware that the psychedelic music of the 60s had a lot of influence but I wanted to know if The Nice are generally thought of as the...well...fathers of prog.

What do you guys think? 

No, the Nice typically aren't thought of as the first but they probaby should be. Usually I hear people say Pink Floyd, The Beatles, King Crimson or even the Moody Blues before the Nice. Imo, the Nice were probably the only(or at least one of the few) band before KC who were doing stuff beyond just "proto prog" imo.

And Family's Music From a Doll's House (1968)?
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Yeah, strangely the Beatles after introducting the Mellotron never fully embraced it. Probably because they could afford real orchestra accompaniment. Thank goodness that King Crimson couldn't!


True but they might have used it more than you think they did. Did you know that the acoustic guitar introduction on "the continuing story of Bungalo Bill" was actually a mellotron? 
The Beatles only used the Mellotron on 4 songs: Strawberry Fields, Flying, Revolution 9 and Bungalow Bill. The Planet Mellotron site includes Tomorrow Never Knows, but that's disputed.

Edited by SteveG - October 04 2020 at 16:54
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Yeah, strangely the Beatles after introducting the Mellotron never fully embraced it. Probably because they could afford real orchestra accompaniment. Thank goodness that King Crimson couldn't!


True but they might have used it more than you think they did. Did you know that the acoustic guitar introduction on "the continuing story of Bungalo Bill" was actually a mellotron? 
The Beatles only used the Mellotron on 4 songs: Strawberry Fields, Flying, Revolution 9 and Bungalow Bill. The Planet Mellotron site includes Tomorrow Never Knows, but that's disputed.

You just popped soooooooo many balloons with this factoid, there are many members who probably took a sick day from work as they are so distraught at this news....LOL
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The Moodies and Procul were Pioneers, specially with the embodiment of full orchestral arrangements in this particular case some advantage to Procul,The Move a close step but it is KC that levels up to another layer.
The Beatles had glimpses but they were never close to prog imho.
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Originally posted by Paulo V Paulo V wrote:

The Moodies and Procul were Pioneers, specially with the embodiment of full orchestral arrangements in this particular case some advantage to Procul,The Move a close step but it is KC that levels up to another layer.
The Beatles had glimpses but they were never close to prog imho.
Totally agree. Thumbs Up The Moody Blues first prog album "Days of Future Passed" arrived a full two years ahead of King Crimson's debut album in 1969. Smile
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Paulo V Paulo V wrote:

The Moodies and Procul were Pioneers, specially with the embodiment of full orchestral arrangements in this particular case some advantage to Procul,The Move a close step but it is KC that levels up to another layer.
The Beatles had glimpses but they were never close to prog imho.
Totally agree. Thumbs Up The Moody Blues first prog album "Days of Future Passed" arrived a full two years ahead of King Crimson's debut album in 1969. Smile
Correct, that's why on my first post I said this was the transition album IMO to more progressive music, as I don't think there is an actual black and white start date/album to prog.
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Paulo V Paulo V wrote:

The Moodies and Procul were Pioneers, specially with the embodiment of full orchestral arrangements in this particular case some advantage to Procul,The Move a close step but it is KC that levels up to another layer.
The Beatles had glimpses but they were never close to prog imho.
Totally agree. Thumbs Up The Moody Blues first prog album "Days of Future Passed" arrived a full two years ahead of King Crimson's debut album in 1969. Smile
I thought DOFP was the Moodies' first album period.WinkLOL
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Paulo V Paulo V wrote:

The Moodies and Procul were Pioneers, specially with the embodiment of full orchestral arrangements in this particular case some advantage to Procul,The Move a close step but it is KC that levels up to another layer.
The Beatles had glimpses but they were never close to prog imho.
Totally agree. Thumbs Up The Moody Blues first prog album "Days of Future Passed" arrived a full two years ahead of King Crimson's debut album in 1969. Smile
I thought DOFP was the Moodies' first album period.WinkLOL

The Moodies had a difficult relationship with Patrick Moraz, now the albums with him do not exist. LOL
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If you are narrowing it down to Moody Blues and Procol Harum, then there is no question that Procol Harum was first.  A Whiter Shade of Pale and their first Album beat out Moody Blues.

1) Procol Harum
2) Moody Blues

It goes back to the question do you believe that the Beatles had an Album that could be considered ahead and Revolver springs to mind as a potential.
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If you listen to Repent Walpurgis never mind Whiter Shade of Pale there should be no more doubt :)  Puts whoever mentioned The Nice totally out of the equation.

Edited by Spaciousmind - October 06 2020 at 05:25
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Man, as I am about to pop down stairs to work I am listening to Repent Walpurgis for the fourth time this morning.  It must be the mood I am in today.  I am finding it hard to think of this morning of a better composition over the last 53 years. The song is 53 years old!! 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Paulo V Paulo V wrote:

The Moodies and Procul were Pioneers, specially with the embodiment of full orchestral arrangements in this particular case some advantage to Procul,The Move a close step but it is KC that levels up to another layer.
The Beatles had glimpses but they were never close to prog imho.
Totally agree. Thumbs Up The Moody Blues first prog album "Days of Future Passed" arrived a full two years ahead of King Crimson's debut album in 1969. Smile
I thought DOFP was the Moodies' first album period.WinkLOL

The Moodies had a difficult relationship with Patrick Moraz, now the albums with him do not exist. LOL
The albums still exist but Patrick Moraz has been airbrushed (quite literally) from The Moody Blues history, after the "Music Trial of the Century" in 1991. Tongue
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