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Mirage vs Moonmadness

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Poll Question: Mirage or Moonmadness (Camel)?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [36.73%]
31 [63.27%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geekfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mirage vs Moonmadness
    Posted: January 14 2021 at 12:13
Moonmadnass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 14 2021 at 10:58
Originally posted by judahbenkenobi judahbenkenobi wrote:

Moonmadness for me also
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tempest_77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 20:08
Camel's best songs are on Mirage (Nimrodel and Lady Fantasy), but Moonmadness is a better album.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 12:28
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

They are both great lps and its a difficult choice..

I will go for Mirage as it has a special place in my heart.

It has a much more 'raw' and i happily admit, in places, slightly sloppy sound (if that equates to 'immature', so be itWink..); it was recorded by a band relatively early in their career when really neither their 'sound' or audience were defined. In the early days they were playing to a more 'underground' audience in the UK.. certainly one that was not yet so defined by the 'prog' tag.. possibly one of the reasons they didnt go down well in Italy on early support slots with VDGG etc?

The Snow Goose was a departure into a much more nuanced and tighter compositional sound for the band and even more so for Moonmadness which epitomises the 'Camel sound'.

Even though Moonmadness is my favorite, I actually prefer the production on Mirage; it's so analog, you can TASTE it. Supertwister is my favorite; I feel like I'm watching a snow storm through a thick pane glass window, while bundled up sipping hot coffee inside. Magic!

Mirage has a much more 'Live in the Studio' feel which makes it feel more immediate.

Remember Camel made 4 lps as a totally fixed and solid unit; Doug Ferguson was the first to leave as i think he felt that the more 'rock' side of the band was being squeezed out and Mr Latimer and Ward wanted to go towards a Jazz feel..

Mirage has lots of bits and pieces of Peter Bardens solo ideas and bits of the bands early 'Jams' incorporated in the composition so is much looser in feel. The band were a bit more into a good time then too (have you seen how out of it they all look on the photo montage on the original Mirage insert that came with the album?? Peter Bardens had a fairly prestigous appetite as did Andy Ward...) Once all this early 'jammed out' material and compositions had been used up, Bardens and Latimer started getting serious with the Snow goose..

It think its very unfair to see Camel as a 'revolving door of musicians' as this only really happened post 'Breathless'.

Ironically, the first time i actually saw Camel was on the 'I can see your house from here' tour..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rednight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 08:34
Mirage is the most prog, but Moonmadness has more bells and whistles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 07:29
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I like both but consider neither of them as masterpieces. 

For me, Camel never fully-realized their tremendous potential. With a revolving door lineup of musicians, you gotta wonder what it was that made them unable to keep a set lineup of committed musicians. Pretty much a one man show, it's too bad Andy just didn't pick a new band name for each album--or just put it out there for what it was: the latest "Andy Latimer Project." Plus, they were a band that never successfully found its voice--literally--(much as they tried) and, thus, suffered from a continuing identity crisis. From album to album, we the buyer never knew what we would be getting (which can be exciting, but results, ultimately, in disappointment when it never lives up to hopes and expectations). Don't get me wrong: I kept up my faith--kept buying the records, kept finding enjoyable songs or elements of songs in each and every album; but, to me, no Camel album has ever compared to the heights of those reached by the likes of Yes, Magma, Genesis, PFM, Banco, AREA, Mahavishnu/RTF, Univers Zero/Art Zoyd, Änglagård, or even Rush, Renaissance, Focus, VDGG, Opeth, Weather Report, J-L Ponty, Dream Theater, or SWilson/PT. 
 
Pete Bardens' influence was probably just as important till around Rain Dances. Once he left though, I would agree that it was sort of Latimer's platform.

Not to forget about Andy Ward, who was a truly phantastic drummer.
In the early days it wasn't that much "revolving door"; Mirage is great but Moonmadness has overtaken it on my list in recent years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 07:07
^ Totally valid take, the symphonic arrangements and pure attention to detail and subtleties on the Snow Goose blow my mind every time. I've just recently got two of my friends really hooked on that record and we listen together all the time!

Edited by dougmcauliffe - January 13 2021 at 07:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 13 2021 at 07:01
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Moonmadness, we're talking my favorite band and favorite album here Smile Mirage is a classic, and one I also love, but for me Moonmadness takes the best aspects of the first 3 Camel albums, and combines them with a sense of confidence and experience and everything just clicks. Brilliant track listing without a second wasted.

My favourite band too, but for me, The Snow Goose is their peak and the best album ever recorded by anyone.
The other two are also absolute masterpieces, but i marginally prefer Moonmadness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 23:53
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

They are both great lps and its a difficult choice..

I will go for Mirage as it has a special place in my heart.

It has a much more 'raw' and i happily admit, in places, slightly sloppy sound (if that equates to 'immature', so be itWink..); it was recorded by a band relatively early in their career when really neither their 'sound' or audience were defined. In the early days they were playing to a more 'underground' audience in the UK.. certainly one that was not yet so defined by the 'prog' tag.. possibly one of the reasons they didnt go down well in Italy on early support slots with VDGG etc?

The Snow Goose was a departure into a much more nuanced and tighter compositional sound for the band and even more so for Moonmadness which epitomises the 'Camel sound'.

Even though Moonmadness is my favorite, I actually prefer the production on Mirage; it's so analog, you can TASTE it. Supertwister is my favorite; I feel like I'm watching a snow storm through a thick pane glass window, while bundled up sipping hot coffee inside. Magic!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 23:47
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

I like both but consider neither of them as masterpieces. 

For me, Camel never fully-realized their tremendous potential. With a revolving door lineup of musicians, you gotta wonder what it was that made them unable to keep a set lineup of committed musicians. Pretty much a one man show, it's too bad Andy just didn't pick a new band name for each album--or just put it out there for what it was: the latest "Andy Latimer Project." Plus, they were a band that never successfully found its voice--literally--(much as they tried) and, thus, suffered from a continuing identity crisis. From album to album, we the buyer never knew what we would be getting (which can be exciting, but results, ultimately, in disappointment when it never lives up to hopes and expectations). Don't get me wrong: I kept up my faith--kept buying the records, kept finding enjoyable songs or elements of songs in each and every album; but, to me, no Camel album has ever compared to the heights of those reached by the likes of Yes, Magma, Genesis, PFM, Banco, AREA, Mahavishnu/RTF, Univers Zero/Art Zoyd, Änglagård, or even Rush, Renaissance, Focus, VDGG, Opeth, Weather Report, J-L Ponty, Dream Theater, or SWilson/PT. 
 
Pete Bardens' influence was probably just as important till around Rain Dances. Once he left though, I would agree that it was sort of Latimer's platform.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 22:13
Asking me this week it's Mirage. Ask me next week my answer may be Moonmadness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr prog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 21:11
Mirage has a bit of a weak track. Lady fantasy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 20:07
Mirage for me. It's all great, and it's got my two favourite Camel songs in Lady Fantasy and The White Rider.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Theprogelitist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 16:03
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

With a revolving door lineup of musicians, you gotta wonder what it was that made them unable to keep a set lineup of committed musicians. Pretty much a one man show, it's too bad Andy just didn't pick a new band name for each album--or just put it out there for what it was: the latest "Andy Latimer Project." 
 


Using this kind of logic, King Crimson and Mr. Fripp should also be questioned and the band should be called ”Robert Fripp Project”, which is of course silly. KC changed their line-up between every album in the 60’s-70’s. I do of course respect that you don’t enjoy the band, but your reasoning is faulty in my view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote judahbenkenobi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 15:42
Moonmadness for me also
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 15:17
I like both but consider neither of them as masterpieces. 

For me, Camel never fully-realized their tremendous potential. With a revolving door lineup of musicians, you gotta wonder what it was that made them unable to keep a set lineup of committed musicians. Pretty much a one man show, it's too bad Andy just didn't pick a new band name for each album--or just put it out there for what it was: the latest "Andy Latimer Project." Plus, they were a band that never successfully found its voice--literally--(much as they tried) and, thus, suffered from a continuing identity crisis. From album to album, we the buyer never knew what we would be getting (which can be exciting, but results, ultimately, in disappointment when it never lives up to hopes and expectations). Don't get me wrong: I kept up my faith--kept buying the records, kept finding enjoyable songs or elements of songs in each and every album; but, to me, no Camel album has ever compared to the heights of those reached by the likes of Yes, Magma, Genesis, PFM, Banco, AREA, Mahavishnu/RTF, Univers Zero/Art Zoyd, Änglagård, or even Rush, Renaissance, Focus, VDGG, Opeth, Weather Report, J-L Ponty, Dream Theater, or SWilson/PT. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 13:23
They are both great lps and its a difficult choice..

I will go for Mirage as it has a special place in my heart.

It has a much more 'raw' and i happily admit, in places, slightly sloppy sound (if that equates to 'immature', so be itWink..); it was recorded by a band relatively early in their career when really neither their 'sound' or audience were defined. In the early days they were playing to a more 'underground' audience in the UK.. certainly one that was not yet so defined by the 'prog' tag.. possibly one of the reasons they didnt go down well in Italy on early support slots with VDGG etc?

The Snow Goose was a departure into a much more nuanced and tighter compositional sound for the band and even more so for Moonmadness which epitomises the 'Camel sound'.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progosopher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 11:35
Both are great albums, but I have always preferred Moonmadness. Ying Yang
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b_olariu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 10:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2021 at 10:04
Mirage seem to be the one that non prog people put on best of prog lists, but to me it's immature compared to Goose and Moonmadness, though it's still excellent
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