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The Anders View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 18 2021 at 11:42
There is a YouTube blogger called JT Curtis whose videos I sometimes watch. He is probably best known for a video series about (mostly American) rock history (it is fun to watch, but it focuses on too few subgenres, and he often ignores the more experimental corners for instance; plus I clearly miss a wider geographic horizon - but it is well told, no doubt about that).

But some time ago he posted a top 10 of what he considers the all time worst Beatles songs, and No. 1 is "Revolution 9". It is introduced with the words that it "probably comes as a surprise to no one"; meaning that everyone is supposed to dislike it strongly.

Now, I genuinely love "Revolution 9", it's one of my favourite tracks from the White Album, and I was actually surprised that it was that unpopular. It's quite an oddity in their output for sure, but the more I listen to it, the more fascinating it gets. It takes time to get into it, but you graduately begin to sense a musical structure from the seemingly random cacophony of sounds.

Is is me who is crazy, or is it just other people who have a conservative concept of music?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Easy Money Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2021 at 11:49
I like it, I also like the artists who influenced John Lennon in that direction, such as John Cage, Pierre Schaefer, Pierre Henry etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2021 at 11:56
It's an interesting listen but not one I'd play a lot. I'm not even sure I'd classify it as a "song" to be honest.
It's not surprising that it's voted the worst given that it's so different to the rest of their output and it's not something that the average "She Loves You" lover is going to like.

I'm sure I've seen somewhere else that "Mr Moonlight" was voted their worst.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2021 at 12:08
Drop acid. Listen. Get back to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2021 at 12:32
I was fascinated by it as a kid even though I never really understood it. I just thought it was "neat." My opinion hasn't really changed much. However, I don't think we should look at it as a proper song but instead just something that sounds interesting(it's typically referred to as a sound collage) and is a bit of a deviation from the rest of the album in much the same way "the waiting room" is for Lamb.

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 18 2021 at 12:33
When you list all the qualities that you despise and you realize you're describing yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HolyMoly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2021 at 18:50
Context is key here. Popular band puts out a massive double album (still a pretty rare thing at the time) with a pure white cover, no title, and a whole bunch of different music styles. Then, for the penultimate track, an 8-minute monster. What could it be? What more could possibly surprise me at this point? And then you hear this strange, terrifying cut-up sound collage, followed by Ringo singing a lullaby. To me, that 2-song ending puts a frame around the whole album, giving the entire thing a sinister mystique.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2021 at 23:20
apophenia maan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 07:46
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Drop acid. Listen. Get back to me.

Hi,

Bullsh*t!

Just do downtown with a small recorder and turn it on and walk around for 20 minutes, past a stadium, and a restaurant ... and when you get home, you have your own "Revolution #10", and you can edit a little bit here and there to make it more concise ... but if you need to drop anything for this ... no comment!

I always believed that it was done INTENTIONALLY, since the "fans" were starting to "tell the Beatles" what they wanted, and it was a coup de grace .... that they decided and agreed to add something that ... "had no meaning" or "story" to tell ... an every day event ... and in a small way ... give us all the finger ... 

However, in the end, it also showed that the independent and individuality was now alive and it showed in the album and then in their later work ... the whole thing was falling a part ... since if all 4 Beatles had done the same walk and recorded it, things would have been different more than likely!

The fact that we "believe" that all songs and crap have to have a meaning is at the core of all this ... and if you need to drop acid or go take a toke of the whiff ... go ahead ... but the point will not only be missed ... it will be ignored! Tongue 
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now, where is your own art? An idea? www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 08:06
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Context is key here. Popular band puts out a massive double album (still a pretty rare thing at the time) with a pure white cover, no title, and a whole bunch of different music styles. Then, for the penultimate track, an 8-minute monster. What could it be? What more could possibly surprise me at this point? And then you hear this strange, terrifying cut-up sound collage, followed by Ringo singing a lullaby. To me, that 2-song ending puts a frame around the whole album, giving the entire thing a sinister mystique.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 09:17
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Drop acid. Listen. Get back to me.

Hi,

Bullsh*t!

Hi,

F*ck off. 

To quote Jim Morrison, "This is the best part of the trip....the best part....I really like."


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 09:20
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Lennon first played this for McCartney!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 09:35
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Lennon first played this for McCartney!

"I need a fix 'cause I'm going down...."

Lennon had graduated from acid to snorting heroin with Yoko by 1968.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 09:51
And that's why he thought Cold Turkey was a great song when all the other Beatles thought it was crap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 10:06
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And that's why he thought Cold Turkey was a great song when all the other Beatles thought it was crap.

Great snarling riff in that one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 10:14
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And that's why he thought Cold Turkey was a great song when all the other Beatles thought it was crap.


Great snarling riff in that one.
Absolutely! It expresses the pangs of withdrawal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2021 at 11:15
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

There is a YouTube blogger called JT Curtis whose videos I sometimes watch. He is probably best known for a video series about (mostly American) rock history (it is fun to watch, but it focuses on too few subgenres, and he often ignores the more experimental corners for instance; plus I clearly miss a wider geographic horizon - but it is well told, no doubt about that).

But some time ago he posted a top 10 of what he considers the all time worst Beatles songs, and No. 1 is "Revolution 9". It is introduced with the words that it "probably comes as a surprise to no one"; meaning that everyone is supposed to dislike it strongly.

Now, I genuinely love "Revolution 9", it's one of my favourite tracks from the White Album, and I was actually surprised that it was that unpopular. It's quite an oddity in their output for sure, but the more I listen to it, the more fascinating it gets. It takes time to get into it, but you graduately begin to sense a musical structure from the seemingly random cacophony of sounds.

Is is me who is crazy, or is it just other people who have a conservative concept of music?

I love it, too, but it doesn't surprise me one bit that the majority doesn't. I don't know why, but I have some kind of "automatic empathy" when I listen to music with other people. I often feel what they feel, I don't mean I hate it when they hate it, but rather I can feel how it makes them hate it even if I love it. This gives me much intuitive understanding for tastes that are very different from mine. This kind of stuff... I see their faces and a big question mark or even the impulse to run away in their eyes and I get it. I'm here to stay but they won't...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2021 at 04:29
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
I love it, too, but it doesn't surprise me one bit that the majority doesn't. I don't know why, but I have some kind of "automatic empathy" when I listen to music with other people. I often feel what they feel, I don't mean I hate it when they hate it, but rather I can feel how it makes them hate it even if I love it. This gives me much intuitive understanding for tastes that are very different from mine. This kind of stuff... I see their faces and a big question mark or even the impulse to run away in their eyes and I get it. I'm here to stay but they won't...

Hi,

To me, the folks that "hate it" are the ones that are not aware of the arts and their influence in The Beatles and many other folks involved. In some ways, Sgt Pepper's cover is about a lot of that ... but, in general, it went on to confuse us to now know, or have any idea what it all meant ... but essentially, it was like saying ... it's all art ... regardless of how we think and look at it. I would say that "Revolution #9 is one piece that stood up and out for that ... at the mercy of it not being a "song" that folks that are the least knowledgeable about music history, have a tendency to think that a song is more important than the rest. But that thought forgets that some folks are not "interested" in the arts per se ... (Bob Dylan) ... but he also knows that what he does has nothing to do with the "arts" ... and he just puts words together ... so to speak! In the "process" he ends up being an artist and will be remembered for it!

At the time, there was a lot of what I would call "anti-art" ... and many things, like Andy Warhol were around and abound, "debunking" what art was supposed to be. I, personally, do not like that drugs are the reason why something like Revolution #9 took place, specially when it is the one piece where drugs would not be necessary, and its "live" rendition of our world ... as a sort of "non-song" ... was done. John Lennon was very aware of a lot of arts, and he spent time seeing a lot of it (he met Yoko in an art show, btw ... see Tonite We All Love in London) ... but in all reality he could not say a whole lot, because anyone would be inundated by the press, made famous for 15 minutes, and then dumped in the nearest toxic location ... and then blamed on the drugs or drink! 

I find it facile, stupid and insulting, when all someone can link to the music, or the arts, is some dope, and render that artist an idiot that would not know a song from his own _______ ... and for us to sit here and "criticize" each other when we are inferring some kind of idea and thoughts from, is kinda crazy ... but saying that it is all drugs is just as bad and out of line ... there were many people at the time that were NOT on drugs, and they also played music and created many things ... how about Mr. Fripp? Heck, even Toyah, and she came from a theater background (sort of) and someone like Derek Jarman, who did not need drugs to give you some of the most incredible images in film for many years! 

It wasn't all drugs. Marat/Sade was not about drugs ... it was about an important social/philosophical theme, that we don't like to discuss. And it helped the scene tremendously with the dressing and costumes and the colors. And movies too to it immediately. And the RSC became famous for its outlandish shows and amazing performances. Not many drugs, and even Marianne Faithfull does not talk much about it, how she could do several performances and be ripped ... she likely had to stay clear for a while to do these things ... because no director in his right mind will EVER take someone that won't learn the lines and do the job ... too many out there want to chance!

I find it sad and silly that John Lennon, or Paul, or George, could only do something in the studio if they were ripped ... like the Abbey Road folks would allow that much dope around their massive studio and very expensive equipment ... it doesn't add up ... and some folks would have been thrown out for it, or asked to come back another time! Because someone said that he/she was doing this at the time, does not mean that they were on it 24/7 ... and to me, it is plain weird that it is thought that somehow these people lived on it all 24/7 ... and then created what they did ... it doesn't add up ... unless it is being told by someone that never did any of it, and is inventing comments that seem to be popular with a religious identity and book.

Reality creates a book ... although some books can preface and even give us a hint of things to come ... but the great things in "art" are those that mirrored what we see and ignore each and every second of each day in our lives!
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now, where is your own art? An idea? www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2021 at 08:28
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:


High,

Blah, blah, blah, meaningless words, blah, blah, blah, art, blah, blah, blah, muttered nonsense....

I find it facile, stupid and insulting, when all someone can link to the music, or the arts, is some dope, and render that artist an idiot that would not know a song from his own _______ ... and for us to sit here and "criticize" each other when we are inferring some kind of idea and thoughts from, is kinda crazy ... but saying that it is all drugs is just as bad and out of line ... there were many people at the time that were NOT on drugs, and they also played music and created many things ... how about Mr. Fripp? Heck, even Toyah, and she came from a theater background (sort of) and someone like Derek Jarman, who did not need drugs to give you some of the most incredible images in film for many years! 

Blah, blah, blah, further meaningless nonsense, blah, blah, blah, utter tripe, etc.

Your attempt to homogenize the late 60s with some nonsensical "art-for-art-sake" deifying of musicians is as hilarious as it is nonsensical and historically and contextually incorrect.

The truth is, within less than three years from the release of The White Album, Brian Jones, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Alan Wilson (of Canned Heat) and Jim Morrison would be dead from excess, Brian Wilson was institutionalized, Syd Barrett would be wrecked for life, Peter Green would be debilitated from LSD use, and Eric Clapton and John Lennon would become full-blown heroin addicts. And that doesn't even count the numerous musician who carried their addictions from the 1960s into the 1970s and died later of drug and alcohol issues, like Keith Moon, Elvis, Tim Buckley, Berry Oakley (Allman Brothers), Pigpen McKernan (Grateful Dead), Gram Parsons, Graham Bond, Pete Ham (Badfinger), and Danny Witten (Crazy Horse), whose heroin death was presented starkly by Neil Young in 1972's "The Needle and the Damage Done."

The truth is, nearly every great band of the 1960s including The Beatles, The Who, The Moody Blues, The Doors, Hendrix, Cream, Jefferson Airplane, The Grateful Dead, Velvet Underground, Led Zeppelin, The Byrds, Pink Floyd, Steppenwolf, The Animals, The Rolling Stones, etc., glorified drug use -- count how many times Mick Jagger mentions cocaine or morphine in songs. The Moody Blues made Timothy Leary a patron saint, for Christ's sake.

And I never said drug use was the end all be all in rock compositions of The Beatles or in the making of The White Album, but stop canonizing musicians because historical facts simply show you are spewing bullsh*t.


Edited by The Dark Elf - January 24 2021 at 08:29
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2021 at 08:58
Didn't Berry Oakley die in a motorcycle accident like Duane Allman?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2021 at 09:03
By the way, I didn't start this thread to start a flame war :(
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