What do we want from the artists? |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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For once, I agree with mosh. I don't want anything specific from artists because I don't know what I want. I didn't know I wanted hip hop until a few years ago. It all depends on whether at that particular point in time, what the artist makes resonates with me.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20507 |
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Necrotica
Special Collaborator Honorary Colaborator Joined: July 28 2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3204 |
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I think it's all about having that "one" album that moves you so much that you'll seek out more music like it and expand your boundaries. Up until my junior year of highschool (when I was about 16) I would only listen to prog or metal music with no other genres interesting me. But one fateful day, following a Devin Townsend and Children of Bodom concert, I decided to give Ghost by Devin Townsend a listen. The relaxing, new age-inspired material astonished me and soothed me at the same time, and all of a sudden there was a whole new world of music that I'd never considered. By that next year, my genre list had expanded to include folk, new age, ambient, indie rock, jazz, pop (don't worry, not just the top 40 pop), and just about everything in between.
For me personally, I don't like to write off an artist doing an unfamiliar genre until I actually hear it. The results may just surprise the listener, as Ghost did for me
Edited by Necrotica - February 24 2021 at 19:52 |
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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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Necrotica
Special Collaborator Honorary Colaborator Joined: July 28 2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3204 |
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Also, regarding the original post, I really hope you're not referring to my Future Bites review. I specifically stated that I'm fine with Wilson making a pop record as long as it's executed well (see: To the Bone). But to me, it simply was a matter of poor execution and messaging rather than a matter of genre
Edited by Necrotica - February 24 2021 at 19:58 |
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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16206 |
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Hi, I had a bit of this same point in a private conversation with a member about "improvisation", that the idea was to take things COMPLETELY to an unchartered territory, but I am not sure that he felt comfortable considering that option ... within an improvisation, I asked, when would be your "tricks" and "bits and pieces" you knew over and done with before you repeat yourself silly? And I think that this is an issue with the teaching of music in schools for the most part ... I can tell you, for example, that Berklee is the worst school at improvisation, but their folks all know how to count and know the chords, and that makes them a musician, see? And if they try to improvise, try it for an hour or two, to see if you can get past your bits and pieces and tricks ... you will be dry wondering what to do next, and ... An artist experiments, in terms of the way we think ONLY ... because for them it might not be an experiment at all ... this could easily be said of Peter Hammill for example, someone that many people don't like because he is so different all the time ... maybe less these days, but his incredible catalog of music shows an impressive array of moments ... something that we rarely find in any artist!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19952 |
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For me, the problem with The Future Bites was the marketing hype that was going on for months before the album came out (I think it was delayed by COVID). It was a smart campaign that seemed to be taking the p*ss out of his own fans and with that type of campaign you're expecting the greatest album ever (I think it was called "OK Computer for the 2010s or something like that) and it's therefore quite likely to be a bit of a letdown for some.
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Necrotica
Special Collaborator Honorary Colaborator Joined: July 28 2015 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 3204 |
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EXACTLY! I knew I couldn't have been the only one who had issues revolving around the marketing and messaging as much as the music itself. Not to mention, this is the same guy who constantly criticized technology and phone use, while promoting the damn album on TikTok! I don't mind him using TikTok - there's not much money in music anymore as it is, so good on him for using new marketing strategies - but it's the hypocrisy that bothers me. And unfortunately that's a flaw that runs deep in the album as a whole (especially on Personal Shopper)
Edited by Necrotica - February 24 2021 at 23:48 |
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Take me down, to the underground
Won't you take me down, to the underground Why oh why, there is no light And if I can't sleep, can you hold my life https://www.youtube.com/@CocoonMasterBrendan-wh3sd |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20486 |
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That about sums it up for me. |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16206 |
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Hi, I feel that way sometimes, but the funny thing ... the minute I say it something shows up that is different and far out! Go figure. One last detail, and this is not meant as a plug ... but the inevitable question is, where are these things ... and for me the Space Pirate Radio show has been one of the best "new material" for some 40 years, since no other show has the variety and the ability to do something that is not a cookie cutter mentality and continuously make the show sound like another top ten! I think, Steve, that in the end, it depends on where you listen to things and how ... thus the same place with the same bands is not a good place at all ... and neither are some articles here about new bands when all they can say is that it sounds like ... and like ... and so on, something that turns me off immediately.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16206 |
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Hi, That's kinda strange for me ... and I'll give you an example ... sometime in 1972 or early 1973, I came across a bunch of albums that had a lot of English stuff and I ended up getting 2 or 3 of them, and they were "The Battered Ornaments" (Pete Brown), "Roy Harper" and "Kevin Ayers" ... and when I put on the albums, they were so different as to make your head spin ... but they were ... very interesting ... and you could tell easily enough that Roy was a poet, not just a coconut singer! INSIDE the Battered Ornaments cover was a record sleeve that had the "Hipgnosis Breakfast Ingredients" and it listed over 15 artists ... and in the next year I got just about all of them ... only to find out that these were all over the place and very interesting. The differences were out of this stratosphere. Lol Coxhill? How do you measure that THEN? And then I came across Capability Brown ... what a treat on both albums ... amazing stuff ... and of course, by the end of that time I had all the Kevin Ayers' albums (all great!!!) and all of the Roy Harper albums ... and the following year, I got into what was called "krautrock" but I never EVER lost touch or feel for the many HARVEST artists at all ... they were all far out to listen to. Krautrock did a different number with their total outright experiments ... but it felt like an extension of what the English musicians were not able to do, and a couple of websites saying that they were not interested in Westernized (Rock) Music concepts ... MADE SENSE TO ME .... Europeans have a music history that America does not have, and a lot of their music comes from different elements than the ones that we think are "progressive music", which by its current definition .... wake up ... it isn't progressive anymore. So listening to different things is good, and it is not always about you like it or not ... because too many things fit into the "middle" where you are not sure how you see it or feel, and this is what happened to me when I first heard PH/VdGG which I had already been listening to for a year before the Harvest thing happened. (I'll try to post the picture from the Hipgnosis book of the breakfast ingredients ... you'll look at it and go 1972? Crazy!!!!) |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 17502 |
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I agree! I mentioned in the thread about the record that I'm not a fan of this social messaging krapp. If someone wants to spend money on useless stuff, who cares, and for whatever reasons. Although I am sure he is simply playing on that for song subjects, not sure he truly feels that way especially when he is buying expensive LP and CD boxsets of stuff he already has as noted in his most recent What's In My Bag video by Amoeba Records. Not sure I would call him hypocritical, I think he's just using it for topic...... I too think he misses the boat on creating a true pop album, he's not a pop singer or musician like ABBA, Prince or the Beatles (). Plus the musicians he used are not pop musicians, to create a pop albums he's really gonna have to go outside his box of support musicians. Again, that being said I do like the album. If he really, really wants to be a pop star, ain't gonna happen buddy, it's not in his DNA. |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26202 |
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Its a prog rock forum so we want prog rock. I get a bit fed up stating a simple fact , this forum wouldn't exist with ELP, Genesis , Yes etc doing their thing when they did it. You can pretend all you like that we all want new music but actually I don't really believe it. We just want a feeling that we had 40 years ago. Trouble is that just isn't happening , not really. The late sixties and early seventies was a unique time for music. It will never likely happen again. Get over it. Anyway where is M27Barney when you need him to talk about panheads or whatever.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20507 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8745 |
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I want artists to pay me 10 € every time I listen to one of their albums... But since that is probably not going to happen, I want them to do what they want, and then I'll buy their music or not. |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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PhideauxFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 14 2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 4574 |
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What do I want from artists ? ... Simply to surprise me !
That's why I listen to good (of course !) post/alternative/progressive sounds. And that's why I will not buy the new albums of Transatlantic, Wobbler (for classic retro progressive rock) and the new Steven Wilson CD (far from the level of artists like Massive Attack and Portishead).
Edited by PhideauxFan - February 26 2021 at 04:25 |
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20220 |
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Speak for yourself and don't assume others are the same. I'm here almost exclusively to explore.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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nick_h_nz
Collaborator Prog Metal / Heavy Prog Team Joined: March 01 2013 Location: Suffolk, UK Status: Offline Points: 6737 |
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I’d personally like to think (or, at the very least, hope) that people with views like richardh are the minority in this forum. I’m here to explore, too - from any year, and within any genre. |
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11415 |
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I don't doubt your sincerity as it's a laudable but strictly minority view when you consider the vast majority of top 100 albums listed on PA's front page were recorded 30 to 40 years ago and represent an unequivocal preference for 'Dad Prog' over 'Sprog Prog'. Many of these will of course be new to many but only by virtue of us not having heard what is now historical music. Music journalist Kelefa Sanneh perhaps put it best in his 2017 article 'The Shock of the Old' what richardh I think is referring to as a variation on the New Music/Emperor's New clothes delusion. What can disappear—what long ago disappeared, in fact, at least among rock bands—is the ideology of progress in pop music: the optimistic sense, shared by all those early-seventies pioneers, that the form was evolving and improving, and that prog rock offered a sneak peek at our future. Of course, prog rock was not the future—at least, not more than anything else was. Nowadays, it seems clear that rock history is not linear but cyclical. There is no grand evolution, just an endless process of rediscovery and reappraisal, as various styles and poses go in and out of fashion. We no longer, many of us, believe in the idea of musical progress. All the more reason, perhaps, to savor the music of those who did. (Kelefa Sanneh) Edited by ExittheLemming - February 26 2021 at 06:44 |
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Spacegod87
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 16 2019 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1101 |
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Sprog prog
Seriously though, I just let everyone pelt me with songs and I see which ones stick, old or new. |
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Levitating downwards,
atomic feedback scream. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16206 |
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Hi, I'm not sure it is possible ... the way things are going in music these days ... In the late 60's and early 70's in America, the FM radio came alive ... and it took WELL, because 1) IT WAS IN STEREO, 2) IT HAD NEW MUSIC, and 3) IT FLIPPED A FINGER TO HIT (AM) RADIO. The sad thing was that 10 years later the FM radio had gotten completely bought by corporate raiders and it became just another "hit show", with different top tens ... a "classic" bs top ten! These days, I was hoping that when the concert thing died ... that many bands would get up and stand out by STREAMING something and showing something different ... and guess what? ... it is now obvious that many of those bands that we thought were tops are just another bunch of manikins kissed by a record company or small group of investors ... and they are not competent, or strong enough to even consider doing something in the stream side of things ... you really think that Dream Theater or Iron Maiden or some of those big bands can not sell 20K tickets for one show? Or even more? We will NOT get a new generation, until someone says ... screw it ... and gives us the music in a different way than what is happening right now ... look at the posts here ... we're all waiting for the 2nd coming of everything ... not even considering the ability and option of new music! As I keep saying ... have you looked at the mirror lately to see if you are "progressive" or "regressive" as a listener ... and from the listing of posts and a quick evaluation I would almost say that at least 50% of us are very regressive, and it has nothing to do with us being old ... it has to do with our own inability to get past the "top five" ... and the over abundance of posts and kissing taking place. How many times do you have to say you like TAAB? or CTTE? Maybe tomorrow we will wake up to new music ... but it ain't gonna happen with folks from PA ... that's for sure! As sad as that may sound!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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