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What do we want from the artists?
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Points: 14122 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 06:11
Steven Wilson can do what he wants, and if somebody doesn't like it, they can say so. I don't have problems with any of these, and surely I don't "want" anything from Wilson. If he makes an album that I don't like, so be it.
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Manuel View Drop Down
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I want a listening experience that makes me feel good, fulfilled and pleased, no matter how prog or pop it sounds. In other words, I want music that I like, no matter what.
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Points: 20505 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 06:42
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by fredyair fredyair wrote:

Reading recent albums reviews I've noticed that we are all a bunch of complaining asses, I'll put two examples and then you give me your opinion.
Steven Wilson new album has been criticized for being too different, labeled as glorified pop, not prog enough, etc.
Transatlantic new album has labeled "just more of the same", "nothing new", predictable, etc.

So, what do we want? Same old, same old or shocking and unexpected?
I must say, frankly, that I have no idea of what you're talking about. Positive reviews outweigh negative reviews here about a rate of something like 4 to 1. Perhaps you should stop focusing on your preferred artists and delve into reviews of artists that you are unfamiliar with and see some of the positive reviews that you are missing.

 
Maybe he's looking outside of PA? I haven't read reviews/opinions about the new Transatlantic album on FB but the reviews of SW's album are, I would guess, 60-40 against it/not liking it/sl*g.ing it off for not being prog.
i would also add that it's not surprising to see S.Wilson dissed for not being prog on a prog site, but negatives about the new Transatlantic album puzzle me. Not only is it prog, it's good.
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Points: 3895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 06:49
There are 10 reviews for Transatlantic, 7 of which are 5 stars, one is a middle of the road 3 stars and two are negative. So it's overwhelmingly positive (I think it's more of the fans of TA and its members other works tend to look at their collective music with rose tinted glasses and these reviews are the ones that tend to garner some middling and defensive social review comments).
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Points: 20505 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 06:52
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

There are 10 reviews for Transatlantic, 7 of which are 5 stars, one is a middle of the road 3 stars and two are negative. So it's overwhelmingly positive (I think it's more of the fans of TA and its members other works tend to look at their collective music with rose tinted glasses and these reviews are the ones that tend to garner some middling and defensive social review comments).
Thanks for the info. Having already listened to and made up my mind about the album, I didn't bother to read it's reviews here. Embarrassed
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Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I want a listening experience that makes me feel good, fulfilled and pleased, no matter how prog or pop it sounds. In other words, I want music that I like, no matter what.

I don't want music that I like; I want music that is new to me. sometimes I like it at first listening, sometimes it needs repeated listening to be liked, and sometimes it will not be liked ever. but that's fine with me. I want to expand my mind, and for that I have to go into uncharted territory. I will check out any genre of music. but after repeated forays into a certain genre without satisfying results I will no longer explore it


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Quote We want the music we like.

THIS ↑
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Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I want a listening experience that makes me feel good, fulfilled and pleased, no matter how prog or pop it sounds. In other words, I want music that I like, no matter what.
Pretty much this as this could apply to new music as well old music that may have been re-recorded as well re-released in a new mix, so from that view it would be NEW music to our ears.

I grew up in the funk/R&B world, so having pop attributes in music I like is fine, I welcome it. Pop adds a catchiness to the music, tapping your feet to 4/4 vs 7/8 is more enjoyable. We are a bitchy bunch for sure, all you have to do is read any number of threads about any band or album, and it oozes like mud.

The two albums in question:
TFB: As I have spun it many times now, and I still stand by my opinion on that thread, to me it misses many marks of a traditional pop album, a couple of songs have catchy pop make up but that's it. It's an electronic/rock/art/alternative rock album, there is as much prog attributes as there are pop attributes in this album, but not many of either. Steven Wilson is not a pop vocalist nor a pop instrumentalist, his biggest influence could easily be Prince but he is not even close to what Prince did with blending pop/rock/funk into awesome music. I think SW is trying to blend electronic with rock and pop but it misses the mark as he is not that type of musician nor is he surrounding himself with those types of musicians.
All that being said I really enjoy this album, I don't care what kind of music it is the songs are really good. I still don't care for the Social messaging in the album mood and lyrics.

Transatlantic: I only just received the album so only 2 spins so far but I am still struggling to not hear it as another Neal Morse Band record, I really want it to be like SMPTe heck even the Whirlwind, but I need more spins for sure. At the end of the day it is what it is though.

If we want something new and fresh, then why are so many complaining about SWilson's new album? That's what it is, new and fresh!
Be honest, we want Progressive Rock from the 70/80s, we want that feeling of hearing that music for the first time, we want to say "what the heck is that!! I need to listen to this 24/7/365.." We don't want prog lite, we don't want semi prog or crossover prog, we want 100% proof grain alcohol progressive rock LOL........but a las it does not exist anymore. Time to move on.....
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Points: 12702 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 08:59
Well, obviously, artists should be required to play what I like. I hope this ends the debate.
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Points: 103 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Erenan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 09:33
People keep saying "well, it's a prog site, what do you expect?"

But there's a difference between something being expected and something being right.

Is Steven Wilson parading his new album around as a master work of progressive genius? If not, then I don't personally see why it would make sense to review it "as prog" rather than "as pop."

Though to be upfront and honest I will admit that I haven't listened to it. LOL
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I want a listening experience that makes me feel good, fulfilled and pleased, no matter how prog or pop it sounds. In other words, I want music that I like, no matter what.

I don't want music that I like; I want music that is new to me. sometimes I like it at first listening, sometimes it needs repeated listening to be liked, and sometimes it will not be liked ever. but that's fine with me. I want to expand my mind, and for that I have to go into uncharted territory. I will check out any genre of music. but after repeated forays into a certain genre without satisfying results I will no longer explore it


Probably the only honest and credibly progressive post in the thread to dateClap
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Points: 20505 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 10:10
I'm going full on conformist/non progressive by wanting to listen to music that I actually like. Approve
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Points: 11415 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 10:12
^ I think that's an age thing (I'm 59) and I too find it harder to venture 'off piste' in my musical explorations these days
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The only artist I can think of that changes with each album is Todd Rundgren. The new Wilson is not different, he has been doing electronic/poppy songs for a long time. Listen to PT and it all sounds similar. KC veered off with each lineup, but all albums with Belew sound similar, especially the first three. When Genesis went pop it was different, and everyone complained. All their pop albums sounded similar. I liked them. Yes, similar story. Didn't hear many complaints about Wobbler or IQ's latest releases. They sound the same compared to their other releases. Hell, Wobblers latest was so revered that it is now in the PA's top 100 albums of all time. How does that happen for an album released less than six months ago? Anyway the OP post message is spot on. We are all a bunch on whiners. If you don't enjoy it - move on. But wait, looking at the forum content, y'all only want to discuss albums and artists from five decades ago. How does not listening and discussing the same music forever not get old and samey? Seems to me most want the same. No?
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There are many reasons why we listen to music, and each of us has a unique set of criteria. When a band or artist fail that criteria, we have a negative experience which is expressed in a negative review. When that criteria is met, or exceeded, our experience and review is positive. To each his own.

I have read some of the reviews of both SWilson and Transatlantic, and I understand the positive and negative reactions. Personally, I am not a fan of SWilson, so what he does affects me very little. I may express my views on his music but I will never regard my views as a dogma I expect others to conform to. As I have said before, it is only your ears that are doing the hearing, so listen to what you want. I am a fan of Transatlantic, but I understand the criticisms - long pieces present a challenging listening experience.

Our experience as listeners is different from the experience of the creators of the music we love because the processes are different things. We are all serious about our Prog, or else we would not be on this site. Some of us are more serious and dogmatic about it. I, at the tender age of 60, have loosened up quite a bit on the listening experience - for myself and with others. At 19, I was a dogmatic Blackmore fan: if the guitar wasn't Blackmore, it was second rate.


So, what do we want? We want our expectations to be met, even exceeded at times.
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

^ I think that's an age thing (I'm 59) and I too find it harder to venture 'off piste' in my musical explorations these days
Ouch Yeah, the truth always hurts.
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“If it sounds good and feels good, then it is IS good!” - Duke Ellington
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Points: 196 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homotopy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 11:03
An album can be not "not prog enough" and not "more of the same" simultaneously. The two types of complains you contrast are not contradictory.

As always, the most annoying whiners are people whining about other people whining.
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Points: 64377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2021 at 12:29
There are rare times when music will still surprise me.  I guess I'd say I don't know what I want until I hear it.
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

I want a listening experience that makes me feel good, fulfilled and pleased, no matter how prog or pop it sounds. In other words, I want music that I like, no matter what.

I don't want music that I like; I want music that is new to me. sometimes I like it at first listening, sometimes it needs repeated listening to be liked, and sometimes it will not be liked ever. but that's fine with me. I want to expand my mind, and for that I have to go into uncharted territory. I will check out any genre of music. but after repeated forays into a certain genre without satisfying results I will no longer explore it
You sound like me a few years ago. I guess as I get older, things have a different color for me. 
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