UEFA Euro 2020 Football Championship - Progressive Rock Music Forum

BaldJean wrote:

England just can't win at penalty shootouts. interestingly all black English players who partook in the shootout failed

Unlike some, I didn't deem this post as "racist".

But the real interesting thing here is, Saka is 19 years old and this was his first penalty kick in an international tournament. And he used the decisive penalty kick of the final match! If I have to make a comment here about his "race", I'd say it is like Hollywood giving inappropriate roles to some black actors to compensate for their "dirty" past. Of course, I'm not buying that. Wink

Edited by Shadowyzard - July 12 2021 at 07:46

Lewian wrote:

I have to say I think penalty shootouts are a good way to decide a game like this. What are the alternatives

How about this? After the game is over, one player from each team are selected to review the game and they are voted by the publics as in Eurovision. That would prove very fair results, wouldn't it? Tongue

Edited by Shadowyzard - July 12 2021 at 07:20

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

chopper wrote:

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Penalty shootout's suck ass but there hasn't been a better alternative decided yet. Personally I'd like trials of taking two players off from each team every 10 minutes in extra time and play sudden death. With a wide open field and tired players you'd get more goal scoring chances. The problem with the previous golden goal was the risk reward favored defense too much.

Hmm, I can see a problem with an indeterminate end time there. It could go on for hours! Which 2 players do you take off?

Managers choice! How much risk do they want to take? My point is that it's a closer to resolving the result with a facsimile of football rather than an arbitrary shootout. But hey I'm just spitballing.

It's a tricky one, there's no easy solution. As much as I hate penalties, it's mainly because we nearly always lose to them.

I´m not sure why England played so defensive after scoring that early goal. They should have tried to score another one instead, seing how the Italians hadn´t entered the pitch yet. They shot themselves in the foot, and Italy are simply too great a team not to pull your defence apart during a 90 minutes game.

Congrats to Italy who are deserved winners.

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Progishness wrote:

BaldJean wrote:

England just can't win at penalty shootouts. interestingly all black English players who partook in the shootout failed

I am disgusted and disappointed that you could make such an insensitive and crass remark.

Pretty sure Jean didn't mean it in the way you think, but I can see why it might be misconstrued and I'm not really sure what point she was trying to make.

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I hate penalties because (1) it's a different way of sorting out the winner than the actual game (2) we're crap at them.

Agreed. If England were even half decent at penalties we'd probably have another World Cup and two European Championships to add to our solitary "pot" from 1966.

"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"

"He's up the pub"

Progishness wrote:

...

Yes I'm sure - had Jean (a respected member of the forum) taken the time to qualify that single sentence then myself and others maybe wouldn't have interpreted it in such a negative way.

Hi,

I'm just disappointed all around. First by the comment, and then by the reactions. Both are not quite my idea of how we can solve the issue and help each other better.

I have for over 50 years in film and theater, never used a line for separating actors and actresses and said so in a recent comment about your favorite _____ actor. To me, they are all actors and all of them deserve some serious consideration, that for all intents and purposes are not getting.

I did not take, in the 80' at UCSB a course in "Black Film History" because I did not like the differing idea of not believing that they did not deserve the same cultural respect as anyone else, and even had a talk with the instructor about it. He agreed, but he said, what we gonna do? Let all these films, theater and music die?

I went out and bought the 3 books for the class, I still have them, and I love them. The respect and care for the actors and actresses is immense, and the history has been that they were not exactly given a proper chance given the state of ownership by the big name movie studios in America of all the film showing houses, leaving these "lesser" films to students in schools in California (all of the UC system had those courses then, specially Berkeley and Stanford!) and to film showcases as a Festival. AND, to this day, the work of many of these fine people is still left behind and not reviewed even in places like USA TODAY or any publication, which is sad all around.

It is said that this is a case for "education" and their leaders, but I can't help thinking that those leaders have failed to remove the demarcation line about people. We all have 2 arms, 2 legs, and so on, and to differentiate in any other way is very sad indeed. In fact, a lot of my tastes in music go way back, to even music from other cultures and people, a true universal and creative effort about these things.

I'm not sure, or convinced that things are too different in Europe, and specially Germany, however, I look forward to things improving in that area for everyone.

FOR ME, PROGRESSIVE MUSIC, IS NOT ABOUT COLOR AND OUR DIFFERENCES. IT HAS TO BE ABOUT THE MUSIC ONLY AND NOTHING BUT THE MUSIC. AND IN SPORT THE SAME THING. THE MENTIONING OR SEPARATION OF THE FOLKS INVOLVED IS NOT RIGHT AND INAPPROPRIATE AND ONLY SHOWS HOW WE THINK ONE GROUP IS SUPERIOR TO THE OTHER AND OTHER UNSAVORY IDEAS AND SITUATIONS.

I'm not sure that "social media" can solve this. The only way we can do this is to look at the mirror and realize that we are all pretty much the same. And while I think the ladies have a right to their opinions, i tend to think that NONE of their postings over the years have shown a lack of sensitivity or appreciation for a lot of different music, however, (with that said), I would have wished that the statement was worded differently in order to prevent the sad result that we got here on PA.

PA is not the place for that discussion. I WOULD PREFER THAT WE LEAD IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. We have been, and are (above all) about music and the people that create it, and we don't look at Jimi, or many others as a person of color and we shouldn't do the same for someone that missed a penalty, something that has happened many times to the 2 Englishmen that scored their penalties, and there would have been no guarantees that any others would have fared any better. The GK for Italy had done his homework, was the main issue, and as such was able to help his team better.

Please all ... apologize and move on. We must not create barriers and lines about people and specially (in our case) about the music! Or indeed, in sport!

Edited by moshkito - July 13 2021 at 09:46

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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^ Word usage is all about context.

A colleague of mine from many years ago, who was of West Indian extraction but had lived most of his life in England used to say, "You may call me black, you may call me a b@stard, but don't call me a black b@stard".

Similarly more recently when I had my Covid jabs I was asked at one point if they could record me (for data collation purposes) as 'White British', and I said of course they may because I'm both white and British. It's merely a statement of fact(s).

The problem is now too many try to turn things into discrimination issues (race, ethnicity, faith, gender, sexuality etc), when they're not.

Edited by Progishness - July 13 2021 at 10:24

"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."

Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

ExittheLemming wrote:

There ain't too many managers with World Cup semi-finalist and Euros finalist on their resumes but given their opponents at the WC 2018 included Panama, Tunisia and Sweden and they had 6 of their 7 games at Wembley plus the easier half of the draw for Euro 2020 and still couldn't get the job done: Is Gareth Southgate the right man to lead England towards the World Cup 2022? For me he's too risk averse and passive to coach a winning side at the very highest level despite the undoubted talent pool he has at his disposal. (I also think Roberto Martinez's Belgium under achieve but for opposite reasons i.e. they are too open and neglect collective defensive duties) Trouble is, there aren't too many obvious contenders for the role out there. Dean Smith has been brilliant at Aston Villa while Steven Gerrard has revolutionized Rangers in Scotland but needs to take a similar step up to the EPL that Brendan Rodgers took via Celtic before he's even in that conversation. Thoughts?

No way Southgate is replaced unless he retires due to burn out. Only Ramsey has a better tournament record and only Capella a better win percentage. You can only beat the teams in front of you in the stadiums scheduled. England are generally overrated. I'm very happy with the job he's done and there's no candidate who is good enough who would want the job or take the pay cut.

I'd agree with that by and large. He made mistakes, particularly how he handled the penalty shootout, bringing in players last minute who didn't really have time to get into the team. That said, the team shows a much better attitude and work ethic than under previous managers. The football he plays is not very attractive but against Germany his approach was surely more intelligent than Loew's. The Ukraine and Denmark were properly kept at bay, as were Croatia and the Czechs in the group. That's quite something. That squad can't expect to beat everyone, there's still the odd team that is just better.

ExittheLemming wrote:

There ain't too many managers with World Cup semi-finalist and Euros finalist on their resumes but given their opponents at the WC 2018 included Panama, Tunisia and Sweden and they had 6 of their 7 games at Wembley plus the easier half of the draw for Euro 2020 and still couldn't get the job done: Is Gareth Southgate the right man to lead England towards the World Cup 2022? For me he's too risk averse and passive to coach a winning side at the very highest level despite the undoubted talent pool he has at his disposal. (I also think Roberto Martinez's Belgium under achieve but for opposite reasons i.e. they are too open and neglect collective defensive duties) Trouble is, there aren't too many obvious contenders for the role out there. Dean Smith has been brilliant at Aston Villa while Steven Gerrard has revolutionized Rangers in Scotland but needs to take a similar step up to the EPL that Brendan Rodgers took via Celtic before he's even in that conversation. Thoughts?

I think national teams should have a manager from their own country and Southgate, despite his faults, is the best current option. Sean Dyche, Graham Potter, Eddie Howe, Frank Lampard and Dean Smith are all good club bosses but I can't see them doing any better. I suspect Steven Gerrard might covet the Liverpool job more than England. Having been Under-21 boss Southgate knows the England set-up and the players all seem to like him. England have been lucky avoiding the top teams in the last two tournaments but he does now have competitive wins over Spain, Belgium and Germany. To me his major fault is not reacting quickly enough when it's obvious opponents are getting on top, like Croatia in the 2018 World Cup and now Italy. I thought he'd improved having made proactive substitutions earlier in the tournament (eg. Grealish vs Germany) but against Italy he appeared to revert to type.

Edited by Cactus Choir - July 14 2021 at 01:46

"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"

"He's up the pub"

Poll Question: Which team do you support?
Poll Choice	Votes	Poll Statistics
Austria	0	[0.00%]
Belgium	2	[6.25%]
Croatia	1	[3.13%]
Czech Republic	1	[3.13%]
Denmark	2	[6.25%]
England	7	[21.88%]
Finland	1	[3.13%]
France	1	[3.13%]
Germany	2	[6.25%]
Hungary	1	[3.13%]
Italy	2	[6.25%]
Netherlands	1	[3.13%]
North Macedonia	1	[3.13%]
Poland	1	[3.13%]
Portugal	4	[12.50%]
Russia	1	[3.13%]
Scotland	1	[3.13%]
Slovakia	0	[0.00%]
Spain	0	[0.00%]
Sweden	0	[0.00%]
Switzerland	0	[0.00%]
Turkey	1	[3.13%]
Ukraine	0	[0.00%]
Wales	1	[3.13%]
None	1	[3.13%]
You can not vote in this poll