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Kosmische Musik III

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Poll Question: Favourite?
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Cosmiclawnmower View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2022 at 13:54
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:


Yep, thats my kinda UFOWinkBig smile Cheers from a card-carrying member of the Gerry and Sylvia Anderson fan club!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mellotron Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2022 at 18:25
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

It's hard to go against TAGO MAGO

The only thing that goes by us all is how much of it was simply sheer improvisation combined with what Holger had stated many times, was combed from 20 hours of tapes! We still think there is some sort of "composition" in all this when as a matter of fact, the whole thing was "anti-composition" ... an attitude that we dislike tremendously in regard to "Progressive Music" and its overrated number of bands, where it is all about their ability to simply write another conventional piece of music with slight variations here and there.

Both Popol Vuh, and Guru Guru, in those early albums were quite improvised, and you can hear it better in one of the early releases of live material when GG goes insane with the sound, the atmosphere and the incredible storm ... something that we always thought only Jimi could ever do something like that! And yet, this guitar player made us look dumb for even thinking so, although we do not give him any credit whatsoever for his storm of sound, and ability to create an incredible atmosphere for this early material by this band. Sadly, they could not keep it up either and later were to become a mere shadow of the original, although still fun.

Popol Vuh, was experimental right from the start. Remember that it was specified that he bought a synth from KS in order to learn it, and eventually he dumped it for music that was more acoustic than experimental, although I think that the underlying feeling was improvisational, by the time you get to the later material you end up thinking that improvisation is a sister to ritual ... which I'm not sure it is! Ritual tends to be slightly restricted as to the procedures and doings, although music for it, might be considered a side issue, and not exactly a part of it all. So, there would be some serious considerations here, so we get a better understanding of our choices.

I would rather this vote was for the most "improvised" of all the Progressive Music materials, and both Popol Vuh, Can, Guru Guru, and especially Amon Duul 2 in the earlier days ... would be at the top of the list. 

But we have a hard time conceiving something that is improvised ... and we cannot even sit and compare the incredible atmosphere for the MM thing on Dance of the Lemmings, when put at the side of the two long pieces in Tago Mago ... AD2 in that album stands up magnificently as it did in their previous album ... but we go by favorites, not by listen and their value. AD2 is not a band that is liked because they are so different from album to album as to alienate people ... and makes us wonder what is going on?

Maybe one day we will get, and understand, what helped define and make what we know as "krautrock" ... or what I like to suggest is music for the musically intelligent instead of the musically inept that can only count to four and variations there after!


Thanks for your thoughts Mosh, enjoyed that.
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

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moshkito View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2022 at 11:50
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Popol Vuh. I have never understood/don't understand the love/fascination with Can.


Hi,

The right place to start, is ... college/university and the fact that these folks were not exactly unaware of music and the teaching around it. It was Holger (possibly someone else) that coined the phrase "anti-western musical concepts" and in CAN's first albums they followed that well, but later it changed. By FUTURE DAYS and SOON OVER BABALOOMA, it had changed to extend improvisations that were really pretty with some far-out transitions, specially the one in the two long cuts in SOON OVER BABALOOMA where the transition is the simplest and timeliest of touches on a cymbal. Not even a beat to speak of, something that an American band, or drummer could never do, since American drummers don't know what to do when things are quiet ... except maintain the same beat! How childish and uneducated that is, is all we can think!

The fascination starts and "ends" with Damo, although I would never not include SOON OVER BABALOOMA, since what he did was the thing that really made the band famous, and it shows in the various concert videos left over from the time. But what we fail to see, is that this was the continuation of the newest expression in theater at the time ... total free form improvisation, which sadly enough ran out of moments for Damo 3 or 4 years later. But guess what we remember? And it was at that time that the band had its best improvisational moments, although as a student of acting/directing in film and theater, I would say that in those, it all comes down to what is known as a "guided improvisation", meaning that some parts and moments of it were kept from the original. It still sounded fine, but it was not the original by any means.

As a band that started out by breaking the rules of western music, it was a concentrated and dedicated effort by folks that were studying music in what we should consider, one of the best of all schools of music EVER ... something that we don't credit much since so much of the "progressive music" is of the street variety with the simplest and easiest stuff done, only louder and with one more effect on it!

It fits a lot, and deserves credit, when you look at it as "anti-composition" in the first albums, and this is visible even in their early days, so they were already thinking of mere experiments and improvisation, regardless of how they came about. Compare this to film in the late 60's where some big-name directors were turning over the concept of film! Rock music was behind almost 10 years!

However, if you only look at this as just another rock song from the top bs lists ... then forget it ... Can, Amon Duul 2, TD, KS, are nothing but poop since none of them sold millions for a society that thinks that success is the result, not the process! The beauty gets lost when the process is now visible. And it takes the subtlety out of the work altogether.

I think it all depends on how you look at music. I came from classical music and the variety and differences were the only thing that kept me happy ... sounding the same and staying the same (JT is my favorite spaghetti to throw!) is not my idea of great works of art! With a huge PERIOD.




Edited by moshkito - October 20 2022 at 11:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2022 at 12:19
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