How to define and classify "Progressive Rock"? |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Posted: October 01 2023 at 03:08 |
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I've already written in this blog about which sub-genres RYM includes in their definition of Progressive Rock, but that was 9 months ago and I think it could be interesting to repeat it now: Avant-Prog, incl. Brutal Prog, RIO and Zeuhl Canterbury Scene Neo-Prog Symphonic Prog ( https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/progressive-rock/ ) It's also important to tell that besides these sub-genre labels, RYM uses "Progressive Rock" as a separate label and quite a lot of albums and artists outside these sub-genres are labeled only as "Progressive Rock" - for instance not least King Crimson, Van der Graaf Generator and some Jethro Tull and Pink Floyd albums.
Edited by David_D - October 09 2023 at 04:04 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Methodic explanation:
Actually, I think you can play better and more clean than this, Kees, but I guess the circumstances are not the best ones.
I wouldn't mind also to hear Lewian's opinion on the matter, but I guess there's the same problem. Anyway, it was important for me to explain my present position concerning the definition of Progressive Rock, now I'm most into looking at PA as a site for Progressive Music. Edited by David_D - September 30 2023 at 02:52 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64481 |
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^ I'm going to ignore that with dignity and grace.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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progaardvark
Collaborator Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 48873 |
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^Whoops! I think I mistook it for a sandwich. How long does it take for something to come out the other end?
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 64481 |
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^ I'm still waiting for my price-tag gun.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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progaardvark
Collaborator Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 48873 |
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This feels like a good time for a sandwich.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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Psychedelic Paul
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 35126 |
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The Mrs Merton Show: "Let's have a heated debate on music."
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16299 |
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Hi, Of course ... since you are the GOD of all things progressive, and your musings are so silly ... pollution is only bad when it destroys the idea ... I did not set out to destroy the idea ... it's the thoughts about it that are insane, and not on par with the history of progressive music whatsoever ... your "pollution" is likely more confused than the whole idea and concept of progressive works. You don't even recognize the artistic connections, specially to the early works, which help detail a lot of things ... and your idea and lack of cohesion on the subject of "progressive" anything, is astounding!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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One thing, we can agree on here, is that Mosh has been "polluting" this thread, but it applies on not so few others.
Edited by David_D - October 05 2023 at 04:26 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8773 |
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Sorry, my obsession is probably to counter fallacies in reasoning, and I
will probably come over as arrogant - which I probably am -, but let's
play...
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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A term, and not least in the world of art and music, will usually be defined and used in different ways. When considering which definition to find the most important and influential, you have not least to look at which one is most used. That's at least the typical logic of historians. Anyway, considering the much growing of numbers of Progressive Rock ratings on RYM which shows to me much interest for the genre, and the site's definition of the genre, I feel now definitely more at ease on behalf of Progressive Rock. Edited by David_D - September 28 2023 at 08:07 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20228 |
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Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. Guess they were both found.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2497 |
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Yeah. With the help of my post, it now becomes fair. |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8773 |
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^ Hehe. Not sure if it is about fairness and Pedro has his obsessions too, but sometimes he also says some sensible things, as does David, BTW... |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2497 |
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For the sake of fairness...
The entity you defend is an obnoxiously obsessive being who has been polluting a myriad of threads on this forum for a very long time. Snakily bellitling every opinion/stance "it" disagrees with, by commencing its twaddles with either, "I'm not sure if...", or, "It's sad that...", "Sadly, some folks think that..." etc. Also, let's not forget about how things are about MUSIC, not songs... and countless twaddles like that, which are repeated by that critter at every opportunity. |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 41470 |
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Edited by Cristi - September 28 2023 at 05:20 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8773 |
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It is also fallacious, because RYM and PA have been built upon different grounds: the first a general music database where progressive rock is just a sub-genre like many other genres, where the second takes this sub-genre as the main category and starts its reasoning regarding sub-genres from there (and including sub-genres that elsewhere wouldn't be considered prog). This, of course is a very different entry point into considering music under that specific umbrella. David has made it his obsession to hammer his disagreement with PA's basic principle of considering and defining the category of "progressive rock" into every thread where he finds an opportunity. This particular thread is a nice play ground for him, so it would be nice if he could keep his musings about definitions here instead of polluting other threads with it.
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 20592 |
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^ Judging by how little attention my recent list of 200 potential additional prog releases of 2023 has received, I would say that most users couldn't care less about "actual prog". They're here for the discussions and because it is the most popular "prog-only" music website on the planet. As Al Pacino's character put it in Devil's Advocate: "Vanity - definitely my favorite sin!".
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26234 |
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As usual missing the point. He's just saying that RYM has more traffic and more ratings if you want to look at that as being important. Personally I think PA lost it way when a lot of 'Prog related' stuff made its way to the site. I would like more actual prog to be promoted here , I don't need yet another 2 star review of Queen's Jazz for instance, the point of which escapes me. We could also have selective discographies but I realise just how subjective that is. With Queen they seemingly are only relevant to the prog scene for the first 5 albums and even that link has always felt a bit tenuous in my mind. (sorry an old gripe of mine lol)
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16299 |
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Hi, The sad thing here is you talking about the NUMBERS as if they mattered more than the reality ... THE MUSIC. Obviously you are not interested in the music, and your tastes has to go with the mass of folks and the more "conditioned" side of the popular ideas about music. The only issue I have with RYM's system is that there are at least 30%, maybe more bands that are simply the bedroom variety ... and while I am not stuckup enough to say that no one can do that, the main reason for using the term is that a lot of the music is added, STRICTLY by the sound and its FORMAT ... but you won't see that. PROGRESSIVE came from experimentation and new ideas, along with an artist side at the time ... today, all you have is the numbers ... which shows how little respect music is getting ... since you can only vote for numbers ... and more numbers ... as if they were the best ... they are the BEST NOTHING there is ... and their "ratings" are a huge mess, and makes it even more difficult to look at a band and their work. I doubt that you can see that since you only look at numbers ... you refuse to look at the music itself, and PA's style of adding more bands to the database. It isn't perfect, but it is certainly a bit more selective and on par with the ideas of "PROGRESSIVE" ... than RYM will ever be! And ... I think the RYM forums would give more attention for the nothing you state all the time!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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