Why Are Middle-Eastern/Arabic Movies Ignored? |
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MortSahlFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 01 2018 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 2665 |
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I know Kore-eda (and was actually recommended by Ray Carney, who knows a lot - he has a few great web sites, too with recommendations, etc) and liked "Shoplifters" but don't know the other two, so I will make a note, and will do an automatic recording on my TV... Thanks! I've actually seen "The Salesman" and thought it was alright, but it definitely had a good blueprint. I tend to like movies about people, something unique. I think the writing is the biggest determining factor for me, and acting. I did do an automatic recording of all the directors and found them, including a couple of free movies by Oslund, although they have a ton of commercials, and will wait to see if they appear on cable. Off-topic a bit, but have you seen the movie, "Buffalo '66"? I think it's one of the most unique (and best) movies I've seen, despite being simple without a ton of movement (most of the movie takes place in a couple of settings) and without things people associate with "unique" (CGI, "controversy", etc etc).
Edited by MortSahlFan - January 15 2022 at 14:34 |
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14736 |
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They're ignored. They're quite popular in the Middle East. This question could be asked for any region of the world is cultural differences. Why aren't Cambodian movies more popular? How about South African? Very simple. The industries with the biggest pocket books can spread their product around the world. Personally i would love to know about some Middle Eastern classics because i totally love to immerse myself in completely unfamiliar terrain. Likewise there is a wealth of Russian, Japanese and Eastern European films that are classics as well. |
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 4166 |
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Yeah. I think it's a cultural thing. For instance, a lot of old Polish movies I'm sure would be impossible to get the context and all the nuances of by an average movie watcher.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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I'm not so sure about that. In Europe (and in NA), there is a small public for these "world films" in local A&E movie houses, but often the concerned film are not shown in the homelands because of - censorship (I doubt Kurdish films are shown in Turkey , Syria, Iran or Irak, for ex) , - bad infrastructure and distribution - or that the people save up whatever entertainment money for blockbusters, be they from Bolly and Hollywood. I'll try to make a list of "middle-eastern" movies that I've seen since the 90's (at least the ones I remember or find the names), but don't be in a hurry for this. (and they won't be "classics" in the sense that you're thinking of) I can get you started on the amazingly poignant film starring the wonderful Iranian actress Golshifteh Farahani My Sweet Pepper Land https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2875926/
Edited by Sean Trane - January 16 2022 at 03:26 |
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MortSahlFan
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"My Sweet Pepper Land" looks good. I'll try to find it. Thanks!
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 14736 |
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Yeah, small list of any flicks would be great. About censorship. Come on. This is the age of the internet. Anyone can download or acquire pretty much anything they want. Therefore it's a matter of desire and that is what's lacking. Europe is filled with immigrants from Middle Eastern lands. There is a cultural segregation that many don't want to cross for whatever reason. I have to admit that i just have not had the inclination to explore Middle Eastern films therefore the only barrier has been lack of curiosity. Music however is another thing and i absolutely love Middle Eastern music of all forms.
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Jared
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Hereford, UK Status: Offline Points: 17574 |
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Yes, I own 'Taste Of Cherry'... style wise, it's closest to 'The Wind Will Carry Us', made 2 years later, also a very rewarding film, although the main character is an acquired taste! His look at social issues for Women in Ten is highly original and was, out of necessity, later paid homage to by Panahi when he was serving a ban from film making (all his are worth seeing, btw). The 'newer one' you are referring to is Certified Copy, which I thought was a bit contrived when I saw it at the cinema upon release, but really, it gets more and more slick with every subsequent viewing.
Edited by Jared - January 16 2022 at 11:35 |
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Jared
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I won't go thru this in detail, but the first K film I saw was 'Still Walking' and I think it remains my favourite... very much in the Mizoguchi tradition... Fahadi's best is still 'A Separation', but if you see 'About Elly' around, make a point of buying it... Oslund's finest is 'Force Majeure' which is utterly toe-curling. Sorry, I haven't seen Buffalo '66... it doesn't really sound like my thing, besides rightly or wrongly, I watch very few films in the English Language these days.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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Plenty of Asian countries where internet is anything but free (and I don't mean £$€) and trying to do anything "free" can lead you in jail. Those A&E movie houses have very little middle-easterners as clients... It's mostly upper-middle class whites and most resemble me or my GF. Let's tart with a few from Tunisia - I'll start with the softies (comedies), and move on to the darker side of Carthago. Halfaouine, l'enfant des terrasses (1990)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090665/ Un été à La Goulette (1995)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114775/?ref_=tt_sims_tt_i_2 À Peine J'ouvre les Yeux (2015)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4400174/?ref_=tt_sims_tt_i_3 Parfum de printemps (2016)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4153052/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Un divan à Tunis (2019)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9648886/?ref_=tt_sims_tt_i_4 And one from Morocco (for Algeria, I think one has to look for French movie industry, because the military regime hasn't allowed much in decades) La source des femmes (2011)https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1686067/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3 Edited by Sean Trane - June 15 2022 at 04:31 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16207 |
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Hi, That's really sad. Even my "surrogate" mom has that problem, but she has bad eyes and she's 85, but for 30 years, she won't watch films with subtitles, and she spent a lot of time in Europe (in Germany) and even those films did not interest her. In the past 30 years, I have enjoyed many of these films in the Portland International Film Festival (PIFF) and in general, over the years? They still sell out all the American and English films, even though they will be available on DVD and such. But, Portland, had a love affair with Pedro Almodovar for almost 10 years, until they got bored with him! Other than that, the reviews I did were for all the far off films that always had barely half the theater to watch the films ... but the French and Italian films did well. and most of it would be the French contingent here in Portland (you could meet them all at both MAGMA concerts here ... you had a problem finding someone speaking English, including the person sitting next to you! I spent the better part of 10 years writing reviews and telling folks (also did many program notes for the PIFF) that they should see the way out films in the Festival ... and still no one showed. There is a huge listing of many of these in my website ... because they are from everywhere. Some notes to think about. Some of the countries control their film industry really heavy and hard, and thus, the only thing that we will (generally) find are films about individual details about a character and it stops there. The films rarely have a political or social detail and comment, to keep the censors away, and hope for the best. Some stuff, still gets out, and one that I remember really well, was a film "DIVORCE, IRANIAN STYLE" that was just one of the saddest things I have ever seen, and it makes everyone look bad and stupid, and it is really hard to not think that a system based on a religion is still that antiquated and senseless and careless about its own people and the abuses that this and that afford them. For us all westerners, it makes us dislike that system even more, and think it is not right ... and that (for me) just shows how they are living in a past that doesn't exist and they are afraid of the "now" and the "future", because it will date their ideas even more. Some things over the years I have seen and advised people to see. I'll just list the countries. Mozambique, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey, Iran, South Korea, Vietnam ... and then the South American countries that also have the same problem here on the PIFF. Chile, Bolivia, Argentina, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, Mexico (take away a couple of directors that do it in English), Brazil, and a few other countries here and there. The numbers in the theater not only show a lack of interest, many times show a total dislike for the culture and its work. And the weird thing? The Latino communities here don't give a sheep dip! Or maybe those folks can't even afford to see these films ... I have no idea, but even the Mexico films have never been full or sold out that I have seen. I think a lot of it, is the PIFF and its hierarchy. They feel the need to make money, and thus make sure that as many of the shows are sold out so they can maximize their intake, and hope that the bottom line does not end up hurting the festival and close it down. It can not lose money, since it is a part of the Portland Museum and its properties! One other idea, and this is just an idea. I think that American audiences, SPECIALLY are so focused on the "epic" blockbusters with the same theme and different heroes, to the point that they are not able to see anything that does not have the slick money that makes them feel like this was just another cheap college film by a student. AND this is a HUGE issue in many of these films, almost all of them done with minimum (if any!) money at all, and thus they can not and will not look as good as they could and they do not have the equipment necessary to make the film better, compared to the blockbusters with the best cameras, lighting and editing equipment! This has been the "sad thing" about what is called a "global economy", which has become about how much the Americans can bring in from abroad, and how much the Chinese can take in from abroad. And China, is just as bad about censorship as many of the folks listed above, specially now that they control Hong Kong, and their movie industry has pretty much dried up and gone to heaven, or hell ... hopefully they left the country and can continue ... but you really think that a director from Hong Kong is going to find $10 dollars in Hollywood or New York? Guess again! But Martin and others will take home their millions! Edited by moshkito - June 14 2022 at 18:14 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16207 |
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Hi You are talking about "after the fact" and the film being made. The problem is not "AFTER" but "BEFORE", when the film makers can not get a script allowed to be filmed, and the censors will be around each corner to make sure they can shut it all down. Some still make it through, but many end up being finished elsewhere where they don't have to be interrupted or controlled. This was the case (and still is) in the Chinese film industry in the 90's when Yimou and others were coming up. The stories had to be "individual" and no suggestion about the political or social this or that ... because the film would not be allowed to survive! There was an article, and I'm not going to list it on purpose, that one film maker tried to make sure he had a live internet connection so that everything he filmed was also saved and kept elsewhere. Guess what? His connection was killed (it became a fake connection) and he will never again make another film or write one, and likely will only be able to get a jog street sweeping. It's like a film story ... and you end up crying at the justice in it all ... I don't know that many of the Middle-Eastern and Arabic countries are as "open minded" about the work. In some situations, these religious systems don't even believe in the arts, and folks are not allowed to make films, for example, and you won't )likely) find a local theater doing something that is not just their own political propaganda. And we don't quite even call that "theater". Having been a part of a fascist country, that spent its time making sure that reviews of American and European films in the late 40's and 50's, you should have seen some things ... Portugal and Spain ended up "sensitive" about its writers and artists (for the most part), but to give you an idea, a book has finally been published (gosh ... some 30 or 40 years ago!) which showed at least 30 reviews of various films, and how the censors cut up the reviews to that what you read in the newspaper, or otherwise, did not tell you much, and the interest in the film was not increased. AND, we're talking about the American Actor's Studio work, and a lot of the English film and theater work around the "angry young men" in the 50's. We all know, today, how massive those two period of film and theater were ... and sometimes, for me, seeing it yet again in so many countries ... makes me sad, and sometimes difficult to say something. Folks, today, can not relate to this history at all, and many (specially here on PA) think it's all crap and not true. Is there a solution? I doubt it. I'm 71, and all I see is the same thing happen yet again, and another revolution where the group destroys all the arts and one even demolished a movie studio! The barbarism involved in some of this is something that scares me senseless. AND, although I don't think this is the reason in all situations, many of the films we find, fell through the cracks and made it although, for my tastes it was pretty obvious that they had to tell a "child story" in order to prevent censorship and a shut down of their project. I don't want those films ignored at all ... I would rather folks learned to ignore the huge money making films in Hollywood and give many of these a bigger and better chance. But in this day and age with people having to "conform" to the social everything, I'm not sure that things will change anytime soon ... the days of a Bergman, Fellini, Truffaut, Godard, Fassbinder and even Kurosawa ... are over ... the chance to see a film of that stature these days are almost over ... the media owns the films and they want the money ... why the f**k would they spend time talking about something they think is taking away their money? AND, worse, we don't even see that or realize what we have to do ... we have to go and agree with all our neighbors and watch the same films and tv! Music has done way better in this respect than other wise ... and I think that the open-ness of the music business with its much better defined and less hit driven process, is the main reason. The film industry, still lacks that idea ... and the masses still don't see that there are others out there, just as good.
Edited by moshkito - January 17 2022 at 09:23 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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Out this week in Brussels in small A&E moviehouses: Casablanca Beats (hollywood) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14773800/ latest Asghar Farhadi movie called Ghahreman https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11777738/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_1 Sheytan vojud nadarad https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11697844/ Edited by Sean Trane - June 15 2022 at 04:45 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26208 |
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As a fan of horror movies I have watched Under The Shadow (2016) and A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night (2014). I enjoyed both of them a lot , plenty of creepiness to go round!
Yet to watch it , but the war film Mosul (2019) looks very good. |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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Two more Morroccan films Razzia https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7216256/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2 Adam https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10199664/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3 From Algeria Papîcha https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9522080/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 From Kurdistan: Girls of the Sunhttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt6704880/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 My Sweet Pepper Land https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2875926/ from Turkey: Mustang https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3966404/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 From Lebanon کفرناحوم - Capharnaümhttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt8267604/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 The Insult https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7048622/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 From Tunisia Bik Eneich https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10749760/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Noura Rêvehttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt10888514/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 From Egypt Nile Hilton Incidenthttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt5540188/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 from Palestine https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5974388/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2 ======================== from Mongolia (yeah, not exactly middle east anymore) Öndög https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9581172/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Urga https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103176/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 From Kirghizstan Centaur https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5612426/?ref_=nm_flmg_asst_1 From Buthan Lunana: A Yak in the Classroom https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10189300/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 From Nepal Seto Suryahttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt3638644/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_1 From Tibet (not China) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8836292/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 Himalaya l'enfance d'un chef (this one is mega heartening) Milarepa Edited by Sean Trane - June 15 2022 at 04:43 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16207 |
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Hi,
I'm trying to find a website, or two, that will have more of these films. Things like Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and the "big ones" are worthless and most of the stuff they have is 2nd rate crap, and their listings are always aimed at their productions, and commercial products, so they can get more attention to their worth. I would not even compare many of them to a bunch of great films, and find a lot of the things Amazon and Netflix are doing, just carbon copy crap with as much originality as you find in your toilet. If anyone can make decent suggestions about this, I'm ready to pull my Amazon Tripe! It's impossible to find something to watch, and getting nicked $3.99 for just about every Godard, Bunuel and Truffaut films, is getting a bit ridiculous, and not fun. It takes away, a massive amount of films that I love to watch and spend time with. And thx ... I'm glad to see this discussion, but disappointed that we can not find a way past the subtitle thing. There is no problem with the subtitles, unless your eye sight is really bad, and not getting younger like mine, but I watch a few foreign things on Amazon that have subtitles and they don't bother me, but I was around different countries with different languages, and have an appreciation for different lingo's that most film folks don't. I miss the incredible array of films in the 90's from China, Hong Kong, and Korea ... nowadays, all you see if half baked sexy something or other from Korea (all Amazon shows!!!) and nothing from China and Hong Kong, to the point that I can not even name any recent directors from those places, and Korea's material on Amazon looks like a lot of exploitation, though I think they are done with a nice artistic touch, to augment their visibility. Not great stuff, but really nice material, and often odd, but interesting. It's even difficult to review, for me, as I do not want to say something that appears to sound bad about it, in the midst of what was a well intended idea ... but I kinda look at a lot of the Korea material as something that Hulu, Amazon or Netflix would do, not quite what we would consider a full film. But even more scary for me, is seeing some of the great International showcases for film, and the listings? I have not only seen these at all, I can not even find the films!! Even worse ... at IMDB you can see a small listing, and it says Amazon Prime ... but you will never find the film listed anywhere on Amazon unless you search for a specific name, and still you get 100 listings that have nothing to do with that film!
Edited by moshkito - June 14 2022 at 18:33 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Kotro
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 16 2004 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 2809 |
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Try Mubi of Filmin, lots of good, classic or non-mainstream cinema there.
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Bigger on the inside.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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I'll go back to my two posts and rate the movies I've posted (from to ), as to make sure that the PA'ers don't start with the boring one and get disgusted because they've slept though half the movie
Indeed, not all the ones I posted are riveting you to your seat - some are quite frankly quite relatively boring for the Average Joe that is accustomed to Sci-FI, HF, superhero, Thriller or Horror blockbusters (the impression I get here from most, if I peruse the PA film topic threads). .
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2493 |
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Given that I'm the most active member of the "movie threads" of this forum, I took this personally. I prefer to take my (intellectually) heavy doses mostly from academic (non-fiction) books, articles etc. Arts is a matter of taste, after all; or it should be, as far as I'm concerned. |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19630 |
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don't be... I wasn't aiming at you, as I didn't even know you were alive (recent join date) Furthermore, you hadn't posted in this thread yet. Maybe you can help out by giving us a bunch of Turkish films that I haven't cited yet I'm thinking of one film (fairly recent: within the last five years or so) that I can't remember its title, but it's happening somewhere in the mountains of the Black Sea coast (like Mustang is) and in an isolated mountain village, where the mayor has problem choosing between following Islam or common sense, when it come to his daughter or niece. .
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2493 |
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^ I'm Shadowyzard and I posted in here with that account as I remember.
I'm also Xymphony, that goes back to the year 2005. Your account is still older though. The Turkish cinema... I figure I have to expand how I consume arts, and what interests me. I know the Turkish culture very well, so Turkish films generally don't interest me. I still watch some Turkish stuff, but really rarely. I can guess that your or suitkees' Turkish cinema knowledge is far better than mine. I generally prefer "otherworldly" stuff, that is because I live in a reality and I learn lots of peoples' realities via different mediums. I guess you get my point. It comes down to preferences, I think. Kirpi (2009) is a nice Turkish comedy, and rather little known. Perhaps if you want to have some fun, you can check it out. Edited by Archisorcerus - June 15 2022 at 05:20 |
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