Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Tech Talk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - A Couple Audiophile Questions
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

A Couple Audiophile Questions

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
PJMarten View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2021
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PJMarten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A Couple Audiophile Questions
    Posted: March 05 2022 at 19:57
Since the only way I can buy certain music is by Itunes, is there any difference at all between ACC 260 and MP3 320 audio files. Another thing is that I like to combine segmented parts of a musical suite together via Vegas, in which I always render as a 320 MP3 file. If I render an ACC file as an MP3 file, do I lose any quality? I guess the same thing can be asked about MP3 to MP3, would re rendering the same audio file type lose quality as well?

Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2022 at 06:03
I think you mean AAC don't you?

See here for info.

The first thing to understand is that EVERY TIME you re-save a digital file like that it suffers some loss. The real question is...is it noticeable?
I know there has been discussion on digital files and how they sound elsewhere on PA. Do a search and see what you can find.
Main points are things like, what is the playback gear, what is the source material, what programs and settings are being used, that sort of thing.

The conclusions are always the same.
Lots of technical explanations to support a case, in the end, trust your ears.
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
projeKct View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2022 at 06:20
You can try software such as mp3DirectCut for editing MP3 and AAC files without re-encoding.

Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2022 at 06:48
BTW, I should also mention that as soon as you dip your toe in the MP3 world you're already living in the lossy realm.

See here.

Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
wiz_d_kidd View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 13 2018
Location: EllicottCityMD
Status: Offline
Points: 1360
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2022 at 07:54
You can check you this article that compares them...


Basically, the AAC at 128 kbps and MP3 at 320 kpbs have about the same noise spectrum (noise floor around -90 dB according to Figures 6 and 7 of the attached article). AAC, however, "shapes" the noise, so it is 10 dB higher above 6 kHz. The AAC engineers claim your ears are less sensitive there, so it doesn't matter. However, I can often hear the difference. The AAC at 128 kbps encodes smaller than the MP3 at 320 kbps, so you save storage space. At the same bit rate, AAC 320 beats MP3 320, but the noise "shaping" is much more apparent (Figure 8).

Audio quality is all about your perception. That's why many people prefer the sound of vinyl, while others claim CDs sound better to their ears. If you can't hear the difference after encoding (or re-encoding), it really doesn't matter which codec or bit rate you choose.
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17499
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2022 at 13:11
Originally posted by PJMarten PJMarten wrote:

Since the only way I can buy certain music is by Itunes, is there any difference at all between ACC 260 and MP3 320 audio files. Another thing is that I like to combine segmented parts of a musical suite together via Vegas, in which I always render as a 320 MP3 file. If I render an ACC file as an MP3 file, do I lose any quality? I guess the same thing can be asked about MP3 to MP3, would re rendering the same audio file type lose quality as well?

As JD stated the big question is what is your playback gear, not that we need to now but if it is of high enough quality to differentiate dynamics and resolution then you will/might hear a difference. Whether you like it or not is your decision based on your own ears.
If your only gonna play with lossy files then I'd go MP3 320kbps, as you can manipulate that file easily and should play on any portable player. As well you can easily burn CDs with MP3 320kbps files.

I keep almost all my CDs ripped to MP3 320 simply for space issues on my portable player for plane trips and car system, it is more than adequate for listening in those situations.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 09:07
Hi

Hi level mp3's for me also, however recently I had to bring down some files for the YGDRASIL JOURNAL OF POETIC ARTS edition of AUDIO poetry, due to the size, and to ensure that it allowed things to fit properly at the National Library of Canada.

The old Space Pirate Radio shows that I have (going back as far as 1974) ended up on MP3's on the highest setting, which makes these very long, since the tapes I used at the time (Maxell and TDK) were all 120's to ensure more music and less breaks. IF, I take any of those shows to Audacity (let's say) and redo any of these files to a lesser setting, IT IS VERY NOTICEABLE. But not enough for you not to be able to enjoy the show or that particular hour.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 09 2019
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 10069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 10:09
I never knew audiophiles listened to MP3's.
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 10:30
Depends on the situation I suppose. Of course that doesn't mean that an audiophile isn't educated on this file format. It would be like a 5 star Michelin chef grabbing a burger and fries at a fast food joint. Counterintuitive to the subject but not an impossibility.
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17499
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 10:36
Definition of audiophile by Merriam-Webstera person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction.
The "high-fidelity sound" is the subjective part, we know what they mean but your hifi sound is different than my hifi sound and so on. If someone feels listening thru their iPhone with Apple ear buds is hifi, then so be it....

That's a 60,000ft view.
Back to Top
I prophesy disaster View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2017
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 4596
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 11:41
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Definition of audiophile by Merriam-Webstera person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction.
 
Definition of audiophile from RationalWiki: a person who listens to the stereo, not the music.
 

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17499
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 13:07
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Definition of audiophile by Merriam-Webstera person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction.
 
Definition of audiophile from RationalWiki: a person who listens to the stereo, not the music.
 

Your saying the same thing as Webster, just different words. I like to describe audiophiles as people who want to listen to the music they like in the best possible way. But in extreme cases there are people who are gear heads and listen to their gear rather than music.
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 14:53
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Definition of audiophile by Merriam-Webstera person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction.
 
Definition of audiophile from RationalWiki: a person who listens to the stereo, not the music.
 
That's a dumb description IMHO (no offense intended). You don't listen to a stereo no matter how good it is. It NEEDS the music to be anything more than a boat anchor. As clever as the statement appears...it really isn't. They all want the 'music' to sound BETTER.

Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
suitkees View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 19 2020
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8719
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 15:10
^ It made me laugh, though. I'd go with Merriam-Webster, still, with José's addition "to listen to the music in the best possible way". I hardly ever listen to mp3 or other highly compressed formats/containers, because I think it doesn't do justice to the music (but it can be useful sometimes).

The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 64367
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 16:10
Seems to me 'fidelity' (faithful) would be a reproduction of music that sounds as close to how it sounded in that room at that moment.  


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 16:59
Perfecting Sound Forever: An Aural History of Recorded Music by Greg Milner

Read it !
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
projeKct View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Errors & Omissions Team

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2739
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote projeKct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 17:03
You're all getting off topic. See original post. Embarrassed
Back to Top
Catcher10 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17499
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2022 at 17:19
Originally posted by projeKct projeKct wrote:

You're all getting off topic. See original post. Embarrassed

Agree, but as with any OP, the topic always goes down a rabbit hole of endless fodder. And usually ends up being nothing about the OP. LOL

Nothing going on in prog so what else to discuss? Thumbs Up
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2022 at 06:01
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Definition of audiophile by Merriam-Webstera person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction.
 
Definition of audiophile from RationalWiki: a person who listens to the stereo, not the music.
 

Hi,

You know ... I was thinking just this when you posted it, and my thoughts are that some folks are more concerned with the stereo, the this and the that ... than THE f**kING MUSIC.

It makes sense, in a commercial state and time, no one knows or understands the word "Art" and everything becomes an art form of some kind, including that which is not exactly an art, but is representative of the human spirit and its continuing expansion of ideas, specially into areas that ... might not be necessary, so they can find their next million dollars or bomb.

Hi-Fidelity is important ... and something that (probably) a very high percentage of folks here do not understand or know a lot about it, and how it can affect the SOUND of a lot of things, however, as I have stated hundreds of time, the "sound itself" is NOT the music, AND SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED with it at all. This is my main issue with a lot of music that is just loud and effects ... you unplug it, and what you got? nothing ... just a lot of notes going nowhere, a veritable sketch by  PDQ Bach right in front of your nose!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
JD View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2022 at 08:35
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

[EDIT]
Hi-Fidelity is important ... and something that (probably) a very high percentage of folks here do not understand or know a lot about it,
Not sure I can argree to that, even with the (probably) qualifier. they may not be geek level but understand...sure they do.

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

as I have stated hundreds of time, the "sound itself" is NOT the music, AND SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED with it at all. This is my main issue with a lot of music that is just loud and effects ... you unplug it, and what you got? nothing ... just a lot of notes going nowhere, a veritable sketch by  PDQ Bach right in front of your nose!
You don't like PDQ Bach?
And what do you mean by 'unplug it'? If you mean turn off the amps and echo, well that's a weird comment I don't understand. But if you mean perform the song on just a piano or acoustic guitar, well I'd have to hear example of the songs you're think of.


Edited by JD - March 08 2022 at 08:36
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.531 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.