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The generic prog rock song stereotype?
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SuperMetro View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 24 2022 at 10:34
I was thinking about what the generic or bad prog rock song was like. I imagine it to have too much meaningless noodling that does not make the song go anywhere, lack of creativity, and are derivative from other rock acts. I sort of feel this way towards Steve Hillage's Fish Rising album at some points, and also the Hatfield debut quite a bit(still like it however). So does Squid 1/Squid 2/Octopus by VDGG with a lot of nothing going on for most it, and I am glad it was not released on any albums except for re-releases. I also feel this way towards a ton of obscure acts like 9 Days Wonder:

 

Listen to about 2-5 minutes to see what I mean. 


Edited by SuperMetro - April 24 2022 at 10:40
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To me, generic prog is not the same as bad prog. For example, I consider Wobbler - From Silence To Somewhere to be the best example of the answer to the question "What is progressive rock?". In other words, it is the ultimate in generic prog. But this album is highly rated, not just by me, but it is in the all-time top 100 albums list in PA.
 
On the other hand, I consider Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans to be the audio equivalent of painting by numbers.
 
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^If that what you think of Tales, then what's The Flower Kings? Numbering by letters?
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This song IMHO is a perfect example of stereotypical prog.
It's got all the elements. Synths, mellotrons, fantasy lyrics, time signature changes, theatrical vocals etc. It's super derivative, the production isn't too pristine and the vocalist is pretty bad but I like it on a "so bad it's good" kinda level.
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I woud posit that Starcastle's "Lady of the Lake" (LOTL) was a generic prog rock stereotype!  I knew the band & loved them, but LOTL threw all of the "cheap tricks" of prog at the listener!  Emerson-styled Hammond organ, Wakeman-styled Minimoog synth, Chris Squire-styled Rickenbacker bass lines, and nicely played lead guitar harmonies a la Wishbone Ash, not to mention the Flash-like (not really Yes-like) vocal harmonies.  
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I think many times we confuse being “Progressive” with “Prog.” Progressive has always been to be adventurous, creative, always pushing the envelop, etc. Prog is a genre, most likely derived from the progressive movement on the 70s, and consists mainly of long tracks, a lot of instrumentas sections, odd meters and time signatures, etc.
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Anything by Dream Theater.
Prog is nothing more than an abbreviation of the word "progressive". The two are precisely equivalent.
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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Anything by Dream Theater.
Prog is nothing more than an abbreviation of the word "progressive". The two are precisely equivalent.


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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Anything by Dream Theater.
Prog is nothing more than an abbreviation of the word "progressive". The two are precisely equivalent.

Well I don't like them either. I heard Metropolis Part 2 a couple of weeks ago, and sort of disliked it, because it was sort of stupid. They seem to have a bigger fanbase than most of the other groups. 
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Early Marillion does it for me.
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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Anything by Dream Theater.
Prog is nothing more than an abbreviation of the word "progressive". The two are precisely equivalent.

I disagree, I'm with Manuel and his previous post. Let's take an example from PA - Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. Is it progressive? Well I'm no jazz expert but I believe it was. Is it prog? No.
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Anything by Dream Theater.
Prog is nothing more than an abbreviation of the word "progressive". The two are precisely equivalent.

I disagree, I'm with Manuel and his previous post. Let's take an example from PA - Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. Is it progressive? Well I'm no jazz expert but I believe it was. Is it prog? No.

agreed Alan... we shouldn't confuse progressive music with Progressive music... it's a bit like being a Catholic and having catholic tastes or voting Conservative with having conservative views...
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^To clarify...Progressive Rock is the equivalent of Prog.
To simply say 'It's Progressive" is not enough of a qualifier to equate the two, as Alan stated above.
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

^To clarify...Progressive Rock is the equivalent of Prog.
To simply say 'It's Progressive" is not enough of a qualifier to equate the two, as Alan stated above.

I don't wish to be disrespectful, but I am old enough to have been around from the very start of progressive music and early fans simply shortened the word to prog because we couldn't be arsed to say progressive all the time.
Progressive music had NOTHING to do with always moving forward and experimenting. That seems to be a later misconception. It was just a term applied to bands that didn't try to make 3 minute singles but tried to make longer, more complicated and difficult music which was often not terribly commercial.
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I think that this was common among symph prog bands in the 90's. Back then they hadn't yet figured it out it was ok to incorporate elements of alternative, metal, etc. 
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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

^To clarify...Progressive Rock is the equivalent of Prog.
To simply say 'It's Progressive" is not enough of a qualifier to equate the two, as Alan stated above.

I don't wish to be disrespectful, but I am old enough to have been around from the very start of progressive music and early fans simply shortened the word to prog because we couldn't be arsed to say progressive all the time.
Progressive music had NOTHING to do with always moving forward and experimenting. That seems to be a later misconception. It was just a term applied to bands that didn't try to make 3 minute singles but tried to make longer, more complicated and difficult music which was often not terribly commercial.

So you're saying the term "prog" was used in the late 60s and early 70s? There was a thread not too long ago where most say they don't remember hearing the term progressive rock used back then let alone "prog." Of course anything is possible.
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Are we going to have this discussion for the millionth time. This thread is not about what is and what is not prog(That is ironically a stereotype), but I am talking about songs that sounds like stereotypical progressive rock that is so mundane that it does not have its own identity.
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Originally posted by SuperMetro SuperMetro wrote:

Are we going to have this discussion for the millionth time. This thread is not about what is and what is not prog(That is ironically a stereotype), but I am talking about songs that sounds like stereotypical progressive rock that is so mundane that it does not have its own identity.


Maybe you chose to pick on the wrong target and make them a victim.

NDW's debut is fairly ambitious, and even if derivative, it's hardly stereotypal - especially for 73.


OK, nowadays, if just released (in the last 10 years, for ex), it would sound really cliché and done 100 times before.


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Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

This song IMHO is a perfect example of stereotypical prog.
It's got all the elements. Synths, mellotrons, fantasy lyrics, time signature changes, theatrical vocals etc. It's super derivative, the production isn't too pristine and the vocalist is pretty bad but I like it on a "so bad it's good" kinda level.
It seems like every one wants to be Genesis, but can not, because they are trying too hard to copy from these bands rather than come up with their own thing. 

"I copied – don't be afraid to copy – and eventually something that I suppose that I would call my own appeared." - David Gilmour

A lot of groups should listen to this guy, because it is good advice. Also, the deep voice in that ¨Stereotypical prog rock song¨ sounds like that one guy from the Jesus Christ Superstar movie(I know the voice was not copied from the movie or even influenced by it, it just reminds me of it).
 
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I can't even listen to later versions of Jesus Christ Superstar after first hearing the splendid original album (1972), and that goes for the Caiaphas scene....
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