Oh Roger, Roger, Roger. When will you learn?

Sean Trane wrote: tszirmay wrote: Orban may be an idiot but being voted in 5 times and 4 consecutively means that the majority of the Hungarian electorate want him in power , much to the chagrin of the Belgian-led Verhofstadt crew, who (Guy I mean) is a the real idiot. Unless you suggest to let all non-Hungarian Europeans vote for a Hungarian government and deny all Hungarians the right to vote , European values are thus saved, problem solved ! Or why bother with elections at all , just get rid of all national governments and let Brussels rule everyone? That is true democracy when your side wins. How quaint! Why not focus now on Italy , soon to have unacceptable government ? Perhaps if there would be only Brussels ruling and no more elections, things would be better? sounds very reich-ish to me .....   are you writing in small print because you know you're saying something relatively (let's stay polite and not say totally)  stooooopid?  Orban is a near-fascist totalitarian: repressing opposition and sexual minorities and other liberties (like Erdogan in Turkey or like Poland is) and  he's modified the country's constitution so he stays in power (like Putin & Erdogan or the Chinese communist party). Poland's regime is following suit. And so is Italy, since yesterday. And your stubborn relentlessness attacks on Verhofstad (a liberal-capitalist) is really weird. Furthermore, he's been mostly out of the public's eye for nearly a decade. You should be attacking his Belgian heir, Charles Michel (the European council president, who is clearly a US/NATO puppet - which Verhofstadt wasn't) and Ursula sucking NATO dicks. The very same USA-dominated toxic NATO that is currently demolishing the European aeronautical industry by forcing onto Germany, Benelux and others the horrible F-35, a piece of crap that is still unable to fly without crashing. Planes that will be grounded by a satellite, if the US don't want them to be used.  Wake-up dude!!!  . .

When I look in the mirror, I worry. When I compare myself to others, I am reassured.

tszirmay wrote: Sean Trane wrote: tszirmay wrote: Orban may be an idiot but being voted in 5 times and 4 consecutively means that the majority of the Hungarian electorate want him in power , much to the chagrin of the Belgian-led Verhofstadt crew, who (Guy I mean) is a the real idiot. Unless you suggest to let all non-Hungarian Europeans vote for a Hungarian government and deny all Hungarians the right to vote , European values are thus saved, problem solved ! Or why bother with elections at all , just get rid of all national governments and let Brussels rule everyone? That is true democracy when your side wins. How quaint! Why not focus now on Italy , soon to have unacceptable government ? Perhaps if there would be only Brussels ruling and no more elections, things would be better? sounds very reich-ish to me .....  are you writing in small print because you know you're saying something relatively (let's stay polite and not say totally)  stooooopid?  Orban is a near-fascist totalitarian: repressing opposition and sexual minorities and other liberties (like Erdogan in Turkey or like Poland is) and  he's modified the country's constitution so he stays in power (like Putin & Erdogan or the Chinese communist party). Poland's regime is following suit. And so is Italy, since yesterday. And your stubborn relentlessness attacks on Verhofstad (a liberal-capitalist) is really weird. Furthermore, he's been mostly out of the public's eye for nearly a decade. You should be attacking his Belgian heir, Charles Michel (the European council president, who is clearly a US/NATO puppet - which Verhofstadt wasn't) and Ursula sucking NATO dicks. The very same USA-dominated toxic NATO that is currently demolishing the European aeronautical industry by forcing onto Germany, Benelux and others the horrible F-35, a piece of crap that is still unable to fly without crashing. Planes that will be grounded by a satellite, if the US don't want them to be used.  Wake-up dude!!!  I do not understand why a supremely cultured and uber civilized person like you needs to resort to insulting me. I do not recall showing any disrespect at all but you don't like being challenged. I am wide awake , I am not a dude. And certainly not stupid. You have never been to Hungary and YOU do not know what goes on there . Stubborn and relentless attacks on Verhofstadt ? I mentioned him once. Hungary is a near fascist state? Is the current Hungarian government FAR-RIGHT? Secret police arresting people on sight on empty streets of fear? Where everyone whispers and looks the other way? Where nighttime knocks on the door happen and people are whisked away, never to be seen again? Is this what you are describing? And how long has this been going on? Lastly, in response to my sleeping patterns : " Quand je me regarde, je me désole. Quand je me compare aux autres, je me console”  When I look in the mirror, I worry. When I compare myself to others, I am reassured.

Edited by Sean Trane - September 26 2022 at 05:29

Sean Trane wrote: Archisorcerus wrote: Putin clearly said that he/they had been left no other option. let's stay serious shall we?  Yes, he fell into a NATO trap, but he had the choice of not stepping into it.  NATO has been after Putin since only Putin managed to stop the killings in Syria, making the US look like fools. Without Russian troops committing their usual massacres & crimes, they'd still be killing and IS would still be alive (not that it's actually dead). Sure arsehole-in-chief Bachar El Assad is still there, but at least IS is not - we could've thanked Vlado, instead of booby-trapping situation like Donbass.  tszirmay wrote: Sean Trane wrote: tszirmay wrote: Orban may be an idiot but being voted in 5 times and 4 consecutively means that the majority of the Hungarian electorate want him in power , much to the chagrin of the Belgian-led Verhofstadt crew, who (Guy I mean) is a the real idiot. Unless you suggest to let all non-Hungarian Europeans vote for a Hungarian government and deny all Hungarians the right to vote , European values are thus saved, problem solved ! Or why bother with elections at all , just get rid of all national governments and let Brussels rule everyone? That is true democracy when your side wins. How quaint! Why not focus now on Italy , soon to have unacceptable government ? Perhaps if there would be only Brussels ruling and no more elections, things would be better? sounds very reich-ish to me .....  are you writing in small print because you know you're saying something relatively (let's stay polite and not say totally)  stooooopid?  Orban is a near-fascist totalitarian: repressing opposition and sexual minorities and other liberties (like Erdogan in Turkey or like Poland is) and  he's modified the country's constitution so he stays in power (like Putin & Erdogan or the Chinese communist party). Poland's regime is following suit. And so is Italy, since yesterday. And your stubborn relentlessness attacks on Verhofstad (a liberal-capitalist) is really weird. Furthermore, he's been mostly out of the public's eye for nearly a decade. You should be attacking his Belgian heir, Charles Michel (the European council president, who is clearly a US/NATO puppet - which Verhofstadt wasn't) and Ursula sucking NATO dicks. The very same USA-dominated toxic NATO that is currently demolishing the European aeronautical industry by forcing onto Germany, Benelux and others the horrible F-35, a piece of crap that is still unable to fly without crashing. Planes that will be grounded by a satellite, if the US don't want them to be used.  Wake-up dude!!!  I do not understand why a supremely cultured and uber civilized person like you needs to resort to insulting me. I do not recall showing any disrespect at all but you don't like being challenged. I am wide awake , I am not a dude. And certainly not stupid. You have never been to Hungary and YOU do not know what goes on there . Stubborn and relentless attacks on Verhofstadt ? I mentioned him once. Hungary is a near fascist state? Is the current Hungarian government FAR-RIGHT? Secret police arresting people on sight on empty streets of fear? Where everyone whispers and looks the other way? Where nighttime knocks on the door happen and people are whisked away, never to be seen again? Is this what you are describing? And how long has this been going on? Lastly, in response to my sleeping patterns : " Quand je me regarde, je me désole. Quand je me compare aux autres, je me console”  When I look in the mirror, I worry. When I compare myself to others, I am reassured. Thomas,  Sorry, I certainly not meant to insult you, but just making you realize a few things out that obviously escapes you. Yes, Orban is as close as it gets to extreme right (so is Poland, BTW). Hungary suppresses liberty of speech and press. The next step to uber-conservatism and imposing their "values" to everyone is very "reich-ish" (your words)  BTW, I was in Hungary for a visit to a scientific institute as part of my job. But that was well before Orban (some 15 years ago)and the symposium was held on the shores of Lake Balaton (beautiful place, BTW) And yes, you are a dude, like I am one and so are my friends (and my GF is a dudette)  j'aime bien ton dicton... c'est très vrai  (pour moi aussi) .

octopus-4 wrote: Let me mention how he uses refugees and migrants to obtain money from the EU.

Let me mention, having refugees is TERRIBLE for our country. And how the Europe ONLY take the civilised and technically apt and educated ones, and we get the mostly horrendous troglodytes.

Believe me, this is a lucrative deal for you (Europe).

Our "persona non grata" Erdoğan and his minions profit from here too. Not only they get richer and richer for the reason you mentioned, but also those immigrants are gonna vote for Erdoğan and his party.

Believe me. Only Erdoğan and Europe benefit from this deal. You (Europe) even encourage us to have more immigrants, while you (Europe) remain as pristine as possible

I'll not talk about the Kurdish issue, as you basically have NO CLUE about the real issues about that, just like most of the people from Europe and the Anglophone world. Its roots go back to the ancient times. It has perhaps more than 4.000 years of history. 

I don't know about you, Italians; but the English love to call those Kurdish terrorists the "freedom fighters"; and just look what they did to the Irish and their present "relationship". We have Irish neighbours here and I talk to them a lot. So, I know what I'm talking about.

Edited by Archisorcerus - September 26 2022 at 07:17

Roger Waters is incredibly stupid and dumb with his politics stances.

octopus-4 wrote: Ok guys, before this thread is locked by the admins (I suppose they'll do before it takes a bad path) let me add something: Sean has mentioned Erdogan (I'm used to call him Merdogan from the Italian word for sh*t). I'd like to spend few words about what the US, Nato and their allies have let him do to the Kurds only because of geopolitical opportunity. Let me mention how he uses refugees and migrants to obtain money from the EU. The old Rog is not totally wrong, there are nazis in Donbass and Zel didn't do anything to stop them. I disagree with Rog on one thing only: the world should give a sever lesson to Putin, otherwise he would think to be allowed to restore the Russian imperialism, so that Georgia, Moldova may be invaded as he did with Ukraine. One more word about Lukashenko, who is also known for making money with children adoptions from orphanages, and I mention adoptons only, because I don't have clues of worse things. Apart of that, I support Rog's positions about Palestine (and I have Jew relatives). @Tszirmay: Some Adolf Hitler actually became Chancellor after being elected to the German parliament for the second time. Being appointed chairman after democratic elections doesn't make you a democrat. Orban is nothing but a fascist, elected or not.

octopus-4 wrote: Ok guys, before this thread is locked by the admins (I suppose they'll do before it takes a bad path) let me add something: Sean has mentioned Erdogan (I'm used to call him Merdogan from the Italian word for sh*t). I'd like to spend few words about what the US, Nato and their allies have let him do to the Kurds only because of geopolitical opportunity. Let me mention how he uses refugees and migrants to obtain money from the EU. The old Rog is not totally wrong, there are nazis in Donbass and Zel didn't do anything to stop them. I disagree with Rog on one thing only: the world should give a sever lesson to Putin, otherwise he would think to be allowed to restore the Russian imperialism, so that Georgia, Moldova may be invaded as he did with Ukraine. One more word about Lukashenko, who is also known for making money with children adoptions from orphanages, and I mention adoptons only, because I don't have clues of worse things. Apart of that, I support Rog's positions about Palestine (and I have Jew relatives). @Tszirmay: Some Adolf Hitler actually became Chancellor after being elected to the German parliament for the second time. Being appointed chairman after democratic elections doesn't make you a democrat. Orban is nothing but a fascist, elected or not.

Sean Trane wrote: tszirmay wrote: What I find distressing is that the PLANET is in a serious danger, a worsening global threat of nuclear annihilation, emanating from a real dictator and all you activists are still busy bullying a small country that has voted 5 times for a government of their choice. The real reasons for this choice is clear: 2 million Budapesters voting against Fidesz and 8 million in the rest of the country voting for continuity. Had the well-funded by Soros opposition as well as Western leftist organizations (NGOs)  put more emphasis on the rural vote , the opposition would have won the election.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a Conservative party. Saying that Hungary is a dictatorship is plainly false and slanderous. But because he has won so often, the onus is that it’s authoritarian . Merkel wasn’t authoritarian! All EU /Nato countries are constitutional governments , left or right. Comparing Hungary to Belarus or Russia is plain false. Except Orban has been successful in getting the votes. A day before the April 3 elections , external and internal polls showed a possible opposition victory. There is the proof of it being fair. Whether one likes the result or not …… Wow, Thomas, I can't help you much other than pointing out a few things, but I'm probably tickling your magyarism (though I thought you were polish) too far. If you don't see it, I can't help you further. Just about three weeks ago, Orban announced that he was closing his borders (once more >>> he was the first to rebuild a wall in Europe in 2015) and refusing any newcomers, because he wanted to "preserve the magyar culture and its uniqueness". Doesn't that sound very nauseating (like reich-ish ot aryanist)? Sure, he's not professing (yet) the superiority of magyar people, but isn't that +/- fascist (at least uber-conservatism). How long before he claims Transylvania as a hungarian territory? Ditto for some parts of Vojvodina in the north of Serbia? Sooooo, yeah, Orban has won elections  (most of them stained with irregularities), but does that make it right in a democracy? Tickling your people in their nationalism was done in 33 in a city called Berlin, with the results we all know. The only intelligent (sort of, anyways) thing Orban has done is not to boycott russian gaz & oil. Maybe the magyars will have an easier winter than most other countries on the continent. ======================== How times have changed... When I think that Hungary got in trouble in 2004 (just after joining the EC) for wanting to call all tzigans/roms as hungarians.  Of course they (Hungary) got into trouble because that would've made hundreds of roms tribes as far as i India "europeans". That was generous... today, pettiness rules (all over europe). ================== whether one likes it or not, but the old feuds in eastern europe are picking up where they left off once the soviets liberated/invaded these regions. It's almost regrettable that the Warsaw pact disappeared, outside a few internal invasions (56 & 68) , because of the cold-war Europe has had 80 years (well, let's not count ex-yugoslavia in the 90's) of peace for the first time in thousands of years. Not that the western side is doing it better, but far-right almost making it in France, Sweden, Italy) - not mentionning secessionsit movements  ala Catalunia or Corsica (or Scotland)... The whole continent is unfortunately going into intestinal wars area within the next decades. Ukraine wanting to get rid of the russian past and minorities, Serbs attacking other ex-yugo republics because they escape Belgrade's authority,  etc... .

Edited by tszirmay - September 26 2022 at 13:28

Lewian wrote: octopus-4 wrote: @Tszirmay: Some Adolf Hitler actually became Chancellor after being elected to the German parliament for the second time. Being appointed chairman after democratic elections doesn't make you a democrat. Orban is nothing but a fascist, elected or not.  Hitler only had a (thin) majority for a government after the March 1933 elections after a widespread campaign of violence of his SA against political opponents, and had pretty much all leaders and candidates of the communist party arrested, following the fire in the Reichstag. This election was about as democratic as Putin's referenda in Donbass, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia.