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Has The Archives lost it's way?

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deafmoon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deafmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Has The Archives lost it's way?
    Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:06

Prog Archives was always only about Progressive Music. It's been carved up to genres, to satisfy diversity, and that's fine. So we all live with Kansas, Styx, Deep Purple & Saga to be welcomed on this site. 
Fine, I may not agree, but there are some splinters here and there with many, many bands that are nowhere near progressive music.

After being away for awhile, I return to see The Doors are included on this site. I fail to see (exception of Ray Mazareks The Golden Scarab) the Doors as being Progressive. I lived their heyday and they were then and still are a Pop band. 

If you need to keep growing and expanding, maybe merge Jazz Music Archives into this site and just label it, The Music Archives. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:14
Another negative thread, so what's new...
You said "many bands that are nowhere near progressive music" - maybe give us some examples. 

The Doors are proto-prog, some think they were important in the formation of progressive music, with their jams and suites and theatricality. So were the early days of Deep Purple (Rod Evans era). 

Styx are prog-related, so no harm done. 

As for Kansas and Saga, I got no problem with them being on PA. 



Edited by Cristi - September 10 2023 at 08:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Octopus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:24
Back in the day, I used to be in a band called 'The Hinges'.

We opened for The Doors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:34
I thought that was The Handles?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:40
DeafMoon, it's not like you've been gone that long, 2022.... The Doors debut has a review from January 1, 2007, and so it would have them been discussed and been prepared likely in 2006, the year we both, and Cristi too (a popular year) joined PA. I remember supporting the addition back then. That Doors ship, a crystal one, has long since sailed, the best time to express ones concerns on that addition would have been before it was added, so in 2006.

As said, the Doors is included in Proto-Prog, which has its own definition and way of working. Some would rather not have that category and Prog Related, but then you also would have to convince the site's owner, M@x, to have it removed.

And it depends on what you mean by Progressive, terms evolve (I do think the Doors made progressive music, that is an aspect). You mention being pop, well progressive pop is a common term, and The Doors are staples of classic rock radio. And I might argue that if we want to be a "Progressive Music" site, then we should consider Stockhausen and Xenakis etc. etc. I'm just one of the PA babies who was not born until the early 70s, so I was not there for the earliest part of the scene or aware of Prog until past its golden age, but I think it was good for this site to encompass more than a narrow Prog stream. Of course the owner wanted traffic, not talking the band, and some additions it must have been thought might draw in people.

I support having Proto-Prog and Prog-Related and in having a wider variety of music under the Prog umbrella that goes beyond a traditionalist, narrow view.

Edited by Logan - September 10 2023 at 08:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:42
Certainly proto-prog. It's daft to think they weren't forward thinking and progressive, both in various compositions and lyrical content. It's even sillier to consider the Doors simply as a "pop" band. Here are a few examples:

The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles.
Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition.
Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear.
LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece
When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv.
The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 08:49
The Doors Light My Fire in a way few other bands do and I Love Them Madly, and although I agree in principle that they're not remotely progressive, they're not a "pop band" either. At The End of the Night  though, they would be Strange Days indeed if The Doors were ever removed from ProgArchives. I'm glad to say that would only ever happen if and When the Music's Over, and that would be The End, my friend. Smile

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - September 10 2023 at 08:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:07
Saga ?   They may be cheesy but they're prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:10
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I thought that was The Handles?

Didn't they eventually change their name to the Knobs?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:13
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Certainly proto-prog. It's daft to think they weren't forward thinking and progressive, both in various compositions and lyrical content. It's even sillier to consider the Doors simply as a "pop" band. Here are a few examples:

The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles.
Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition.
Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear.
LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece
When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv.
The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify.

I've heard Spanish Caravan referred to as prog also. Light My Fire could be on the list too if for no other reason than the long organ solo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:14
Originally posted by Octopus II Octopus II wrote:

Back in the day, I used to be in a band called 'The Hinges'.

We opened for The Doors.

At first I thought you were serious but now I get the joke. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Octopus II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:19
Thumbs Up Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:37
^^I didn't get it, oh man that was good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 12:49
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

...
The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles.
Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition.
Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear.
LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece
When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv.
The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify.

Hi,

It's very sad that someone would say what he did about The Doors. Of the number of bands listed on PA, The Doors would fit better than many of them, and their music has stood up the test of time beautifully, although I think that growlers and metalheads like to shrink their noses at a singer like Jim Morrison, making their bands sound very amateuristic, not to mention that many of them are mere copies of each other.

One thing we all can say about The Doors, is that their originality is without a doubt a reason to be included on PA.

Maybe the guy posting the OP only, ever, heard the AM version of Light My Fire ... Paul .. it didn't have the organ solo, btw! Tongue

BTW, I haven't heard that Albinoni piece by The Doors and am looking for it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:09
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

...
The Soft Parade - check out the number of time signature changes, and the shifts in musical styles.
Albinoni's Adagio in G minor - unreleased from the Waiting for the Sun sessions. A fabulous adaptation of this composition.
Riders on the Storm - the jazz elements are quite clear.
LA Woman - Again, time changes are relevant, as is the poeticism of the piece
When the Music's Over - an intro based on Herbie Hancock, and 11 minutes of improv.
The End - yeah, pop. But only if Oedipus had Spotify.
Hi,

It's very sad that someone would say what he did about The Doors. Of the number of bands listed on PA, The Doors would fit better than many of them, and their music has stood up the test of time beautifully, although I think that growlers and metalheads like to shrink their noses at a singer like Jim Morrison, making their bands sound very amateuristic, not to mention that many of them are mere copies of each other.

One thing we all can say about The Doors, is that their originality is without a doubt a reason to be included on PA.

BTW, I haven't heard that Albinoni piece by The Doors and am looking for it!

nonsense and a bit insulting...

 




Edited by Cristi - September 11 2023 at 06:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:16
@deafmoon

If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:24
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

@deafmoon

If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions LOL

What recent inclusions?! I don't think any of them are controversial. The controversial entries are so few, it's not even worth fussing about. 

The Doors is not a controversial addition to PA, at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:29
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

@deafmoon

If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions LOL

What recent inclusions?! I don't think any of them are controversial. The controversial entries are so few, it's not even worth fussing about. 

The Doors is not a controversial addition to PA, at all. 

I just meant comparatively, since a lot of PA members still don't respect certain genres on here like prog metal or tech/extreme. I can only imagine what people would have thought of Avenged Sevenfold's inclusion if the userbase was still in that 2007 mindset LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mellotronwave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:31
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I thought that was The Handles?


Didn't they eventually change their name to the Knobs?


Good one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 13:33
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

@deafmoon

If you think The Doors is the worst inclusion to the site, you're gonna hate some of the more recent inclusions LOL

What recent inclusions?! I don't think any of them are controversial. The controversial entries are so few, it's not even worth fussing about. 

The Doors is not a controversial addition to PA, at all. 

I just meant comparatively, since a lot of PA members still don't respect certain genres on here like prog metal or tech/extreme. I can only imagine what people would have thought of Avenged Sevenfold's inclusion if the userbase was still in that 2007 mindset LOL

Well, I said no to them in 2023. LOL But I don't want to open this can of worms LOL
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