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PA Album of the Year Discussion thread
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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

''Voter fraud'' , we are aren't electing the next president of the universe LOL
Yes we are....the top album is the leader of the prog universe for a 12 month term.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mirakaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2023 at 14:19
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

''Voter fraud'' , we are aren't electing the next president of the universe LOL

You're right, the proper term is match fixing Wink LOL
Freelance composer, accepting commissions | New album!
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Zopp's second album (which is IMHO lesser than the debut) 
I couldn't agree more. I included Zopp's "Dominion" on my list, which dropped because I didn't understand how this contest was going at first, only because Manchester band Legs on Wheels, whose album "L E G R O O M" is actually a better 'Canterbury' record than "Dominion," is still not in the Progarchive database.
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^ You can still use the time until end of January to get Legs on Wheels into the database ... in the meantime you can use my tool to make your list count
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Small improvement: I added a separate tab for the combined chart, so you can check the lists of individual users without seeing the end result.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ You can still use the time until end of January to get Legs on Wheels into the database ... in the meantime you can use my tool to make your list count
Well, I just made the suggestion in the relevant subforum. This time, hopefully, I accomplished everything correctly.
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Here's an important observation:

Some of us have listened to a LOT of albums from 2023, some have not. I have listened to more than 250, and my top 20 is comprised ONLY of releases that are completely awesome (to me). Someone else on the other hand who has only listened to 20 releases (hypothetically) might indeed not particularly care about their #18.

I would recommend that everyone who puts up a list only includes releases they would recommend (or in other words: awesome releases). There's no point in including bad or mediocre releases just because you have listened to them - putting up a shorter list is better in that case.

Yeah but the No1 album gets 20 points and the No 20 album only gets 1 point. This in itself downgrades the lower placed albums quite severely so really if they are mediocre then it doesn't matter in terms of rankings. 

Personally I hear a lot of 4 star albums but not that many real masterpeices. I could quite easily just have Zopp - Dominion on my list and have done with it.
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For me, the final collective ranking doesn't matter. Seeing people's lists is great because it clues me in on possible awesome (to me music) that I have missed.

I will just think that most people here are listing by there own ears and not considering positioning.

I do look at the overall list as such that even the last album on the list was at least someone's 20th most awesome album of the year.

I will probably update my list in another week. Already have two albums since last time that will knock out my bottom two. And I may reevaluate and reorder some albums on my list because that's how I am.
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Originally posted by Lumenko Lumenko wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ You can still use the time until end of January to get Legs on Wheels into the database ... in the meantime you can use my tool to make your list count
Well, I just made the suggestion in the relevant subforum. This time, hopefully, I accomplished everything correctly.


No you did not - the only relevant thread as to the report that will be generated is this thread. But if it makes you happy, go ahead thinking you did

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 06 2023 at 23:31
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Personally I hear a lot of 4 star albums but not that many real masterpeices. I could quite easily just have Zopp - Dominion on my list and have done with it.

Well, I think in this case you still have some listening to do Wink
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Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

For me, the final collective ranking doesn't matter. Seeing people's lists is great because it clues me in on possible awesome (to me music) that I have missed.

Yes, I think that browsing through the individual lists can be very valuable. I'll try to make that simpler on the results page as well as in the final report.
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Personally I hear a lot of 4 star albums but not that many real masterpeices. I could quite easily just have Zopp - Dominion on my list and have done with it.

Well, I think in this case you still have some listening to do Wink

I've managed about 60-70 albums all told , most being the usual suspects. Nowadays I don't bother unless the band is available for streaming and that sometimes rules out certain bands like IO Earth for instance who seem to avoid Apple like the plague (maybe sensibly). Since I went part time after the pandemic I just don't have the disposable income to buy a bunch of CD's which have now got very expensive. I'm happy with most of what I've heard this year and it's been a remarkably strong year with even the old 'gits' such as Yes, Tull and Uriah Heep putting out decent albums. Most things I've 'rejected' such as King Gizzard and Swans has been purely on the basis of taste (or lack of in my case) not because they are bad in any way. I am guided a lot by the front of the site but it's nice to pick up recommendations any which way. I remember a few years ago Waste Of Space Orchestra - Syntheosis getting a bit of late 'buzz' from the collabs. I didn't include it in my list at the time but now regard it as a masterpeice and wish I had included it. Unfortunately I will inevitably end up late to the party when it comes to some albums. 
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^ Yes, that IO Earth album is one of the very few releases that are neither available on Spotify nor on Bandcamp.

Have a look at the user results, there are links to Spotify and/or Bandcamp for every release (look for the icons on the cover art). 

But of course all this boils down to taste - and there are so many releases that if you listen to 100 randomly selected ones chances are low that you'll find a masterpiece. One good strategy to increase the odds is to browse the charts of users which have a similar taste as you.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Here's an important observation:

Some of us have listened to a LOT of albums from 2023, some have not. I have listened to more than 250, and my top 20 is comprised ONLY of releases that are completely awesome (to me). Someone else on the other hand who has only listened to 20 releases (hypothetically) might indeed not particularly care about their #18.

I would recommend that everyone who puts up a list only includes releases they would recommend (or in other words: awesome releases). There's no point in including bad or mediocre releases just because you have listened to them - putting up a shorter list is better in that case.

Yeah but the No1 album gets 20 points and the No 20 album only gets 1 point. This in itself downgrades the lower placed albums quite severely so really if they are mediocre then it doesn't matter in terms of rankings. 

Personally I hear a lot of 4 star albums but not that many real masterpeices. I could quite easily just have Zopp - Dominion on my list and have done with it.


It has happened (once at least) that I didn't enter a full list before, because I didn't want to give points to mediocre albums, but in most cases, I'm dealing with lists of 40 or 50 albums retained for consideration. 

For those aware of Gnosis2000's rating scales, I don't envisage to put in top lists anything below a Gnosis11 (out of a scale of 15), though a G10 rating is still a fourStar album (12, 11 and 10 are 4Star), but I'm very conservative of 5Star on PA and >G12 on Gnosis  (I've never used G15)

Here is what it gave for the last decade or so.

2022: 23 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)
2021: 20 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)
2020: 16 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)
19: 21 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)
18: 30 Gnosis11+ (G13 max) Vak is the G13
17: 19 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)
16: 17 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)
15: 29 Gnosis11+ (G13 max) Kamasi & Maalouf are G13
14: 12 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)
13: 8 Gnosis11+ (G13 max) Setna & Maalouf are G13
12: 12 Gnosis11+ (G12 max)   


Gnosis rating scale:
15: One of the best ever, perfect. We suggest to raters that, at most, the top 1% of all albums receive a 15. While any rating from 12 through 15 can accurately be described with the superlatives "masterpiece" or "classic," only the 15s should appeal to the rater in as profound a manner as possible.

14: A near perfect classic. In many ways, the difference between 15s and 14s are barely existent; 14s are fantastic albums that either have a very minor flaw or just dont take it to the next level. We suggest to raters that, at most, the top 5% of all albums receive either a 14 or 15.

13: A classic, but not one of the very best. 13s are exalted grades. They are used for albums that the raters consider a classic or a masterpiece, yet did not make the very peak of the hill. A 13 is still an extremely highly recommended item, one that has few flaws. This rating can also be considered an "in-between" grade between favorites and borderline classics.

12: A borderline classic. A 12 is an album that one might instantly apply the word "classic" to, but on deeper reflection, one might not be so sure. There may be slight flaws that would have one hesitate on an intensely specific and critical level, yet a 12 is still an album that would have one mesmerized.

11: Excellent. While not a classic, an album that is very enjoyable and an important part of ones collection. We recommend that raters not give grades higher than 11 on the very first listen.

10: Very good. An album that, while not great, is definitely worth keeping and is very enjoyable.

9: Pretty good. While an album better than most, one may or may not keep an album with a rating of 9.

8: Slightly above average. An album with noticeable flaws, although few permeate the album entirely. Perhaps half the album is superb but the other half is so-so. Or there's a sentimental connection and little else.

7: Completely mediocre. Neither good nor bad. In the greater scheme of things, an album rated as a 7 has been buried under a pile of much superior titles, and while one is not ready to pan it, the rating implies, that, ercan you put something else on?

6: Slightly below average. Just a tad worse than mediocre. Perhaps some parts are outright annoying or distasteful.

5: Below average. Maybe not outright "bad", but definitely a poor effort.

4: Pretty bad. A grade of 4 indicates a strong recommendation to avoid.

3: Bad. An album that contains a handful of decent moments in an otherwise atrocious outing.

2: Very bad, but there are worse. Although an incredibly poor effort, not one of the very worst. However, thats not to say that there are any redeeming values.

1: The worst thing ever. Intolerable. Godawful. A frisbee. A perfect example of something that one loves to hate.   



    
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^ similar to what I ended up using at AP. I word it differently though these days and try to avoid conflating the highest ratings with concepts like “classic” and “masterpiece”.

At AP we now have tiers - G through A (Awesome) and then the extra S tier (Stellar). I’d say that for these lists usually only A and S are appropriate, but the occasional B release could also fit, for example if it is a really interesting debut album by a young band.

Ultimately I’d say that anything is ALLOWED 😊

Edited by MikeEnRegalia - December 07 2023 at 06:37
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ similar to what I ended up using at AP. I word it differently though these days and try to avoid conflating the highest ratings with concepts like “classic” and “masterpiece”.

At AP we now have tiers - G through A (Awesome) and then the extra S tier (Stellar). I’d say that for these lists usually only A and S are appropriate, but the occasional B release could also fit, for example if it is a really interesting debut album by a young band.

Ultimately I’d say that anything is ALLOWED 😊


I would have included Nospun- "Opus" in my top 20 if it had been included in Progachives.  Nospun plans to release the CD "Opus" any day now...with vinyl to follow.  The download of Opus has been available for half a year. 

I'd suggest Nospun to be included in PA, but alas the moderators won't let me suggest new bands.Wink 


Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 07 2023 at 08:37
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I can remember when PA only had a submission list of a Top Ten back when at least 40 collabs were taking part. I was one of those that was not happy it was extended to a Twenty simply because I don't believe I have the capacity to identify 20 great albums (or even can they even be guaranteed?!) . However having intended to stick to 10 I couldn't resist going to a 20 because I felt some bands were not getting any attention and that seemed unfair. So nowadays I am relaxed and happy enough to include albums that are not masterpieces or even 'great'. I'm a long time fan of Eloy so will include them unless there are that many stellar albums about. It's feels good to include them and give them a small amount of recognition for their long service record to prog.
At the risk of repeating myself I do believe that all you need to do with this is represent yourself honestly and that is all I can do. (I'm also just a bit too lazy to spend countless hours on a ton of releases!)  
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ similar to what I ended up using at AP. I word it differently though these days and try to avoid conflating the highest ratings with concepts like “classic” and “masterpiece”.

At AP we now have tiers - G through A (Awesome) and then the extra S tier (Stellar). I’d say that for these lists usually only A and S are appropriate, but the occasional B release could also fit, for example if it is a really interesting debut album by a young band.

Ultimately I’d say that anything is ALLOWED 😊



I would have included Nospun- "Opus" in my top 20 if it had been included in Progachives.  Nospun plans to release the CD "Opus" any day now...with vinyl to follow.  The download of Opus has been available for half a year. 

I'd suggest Nospun to be included in PA, but alas the moderators won't let me suggest new bands.Wink 



I thought I had, but maybe I had not explained this particular issue before. Many of your privileges were removed years ago (at a time when I was taking a break from the site, incidentally). I was able to restore some of those (you might remember that I was having technical issues, spent a long time on it) and I tried to restore you being able to post topics in more forums, but it was not sticking. I will try again, but it's not that we are not allowing you, it's now a technical issue (you might try PMing M&x). If worst comes to worst, I can post the suggestion topic in lieu of you (of course making it clear that you prepared it) but I would hope that it includes a bio, links to hear music etc.   

On another note, I have never liked the descriptions for the stars at this site, which are 5 stars Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music, 4 stars an Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection, 3 stars being Good, but non-essential, 2 stars being Collectors/fans only and one star being Poor. Only for completionists (or completists as I would term it). I understand that it's to highlight favouring Prog music in part, but not only would I feel uncomfortable rating an album lower because I don't feel it's that Prog despite being excellent at what it does, but also different people have variances in perspectives when it comes to the boundaries of Prog and progressive music (and what can go under the rock umbrella). For rock, I kind of think of it as genre-bending non-canonical rock and rock without limits.

Partially I don't care for it because I would just prefer the phrasing to indicate more subjectivity. It depends on the collector, it depends on the collection, what is essential to one and a masterpiece to another might not be to another etc.

For me, it would be something like:
5 stars: Yowza!!!
4 stars: Hurray!
3 stars: Good stuff.
2 stars: Meh.
1 star: Yuck!

By the way, any albums that people would recommend to me (especially if knowing a little of my tastes, and happy for it to be of any of the categories at PA). I am craving a bit of post-metal today, or anything edgy, some loungey extreme metal might be nice.    I will be looking at peoples lists and trying this and that.

Edited by Logan - December 07 2023 at 11:04
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Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I would have included Nospun- "Opus" in my top 20 if it had been included in Progachives.  Nospun plans to release the CD "Opus" any day now...with vinyl to follow.  The download of Opus has been available for half a year. 

I'd suggest Nospun to be included in PA, but alas the moderators won't let me suggest new bands.Wink 

All we need is a biography, I'm sure the evaluation will go smoothly in their case. 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

I would have included Nospun- "Opus" in my top 20 if it had been included in Progachives.  Nospun plans to release the CD "Opus" any day now...with vinyl to follow.  The download of Opus has been available for half a year. 

I'd suggest Nospun to be included in PA, but alas the moderators won't let me suggest new bands.Wink 

All we need is a biography, I'm sure the evaluation will go smoothly in their case. 

The moderators won't let me submit a biography.  The moderators won't let me start a thread.  I would have to hijack someone else's submission thread to submit a Nospun biography.  If I highjacked a submission thread that would be considered inconsiderate.Wink
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