One star ratings... |
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
Topic: One star ratings... Posted: October 24 2005 at 14:23 |
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well i guess if i went out and bought some black metal/grindcore stuff i would have to give one star...but i always try to do some research on if i like it or not because i dont really want to waste my money... |
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bluetailfly
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 28 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1383 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 14:20 | ||
Wow, if you don't have one cd that you think deserves a 1 star rating, you're not taking very many chances exploring new stuff. Tell you what, here's a challange: go out and buy Emerson, Lake, and Powell (a legit prog lp) and then see what happens. Or maybe something else. If you're really trying to branch out, you'll hit some crap sooner or later. |
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"The red polygon's only desire / is to get to the blue triangle."
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Guests
Forum Guest Group |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 14:05 | ||
There probably are a good deal of 1 star reviews that are biased, this
is true. The flip side, that a pile of 5 star reviews are biased in the
other direction, is also true. If you're going to hate some 1 star
ratings, you might as well hate some 5 star ones while you're at it.
He's entirely right. The bias seems to work outself out and we're fairly happy about it. Edited by Six Eight |
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OldFatherThames
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 02 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 317 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 11:34 | ||
I agree with that. Is the rating a personnal opinion or an objective approch on a cd ? For example, I think Spartacus from Triumvirat is crap, so my opinion would give it 1 star. But, I know that musicanship is good, and that many love this album. So, should I give it a one star, or try not to think about my opinion and judge it by his content ? Other example, many love Zappa to death, but I don't really like him. So you want me to rate some of his works 5 stars when I don't like it ?? Doesn' t really makes sense. Why sould I rate an album 4 or 5 stars if I never listen to it and bored me ? I think the star rating mean almost nothing. A subjectif written review is the best way to help people discovering a band or an album. |
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Ed_The_Dead
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 29 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4928 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 11:33 | ||
Now I smell it even more! I don't like TMV a bit, but still its not total crap... Its very hard 2 find something totally hopless... ..... errr.... WHAT?! KC?! |
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Sir Hogweed
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 29 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 191 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 10:00 | ||
Some people use the rating system in a binary form (1=no,5=yes) just to have the maximum effect on the current top 100 listing. A very childish approach but if it works, it works. Expanding the range to 10 stars or even a percentage would be a good thing to do IMhO (you get more refined statistics for free), but that would not prevent binary usage either. I just thought of a voting algorythm which actually prevents this sort of usage. Hmmm... Thanks for getting me to this idea, Maiden. It might be the solution for our problem, but it would require some reprogramming by the staff. Let me think about it... |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16329 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 09:06 | ||
[QUOTE=maidenrulez] not even the worst as POS, KC, Derek
sherihan and the likes deserves one star so i begin to wonder if people are really serious when they give one star ratings? [/ |
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Phil
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 09:02 | ||
I agree that the number of 5 star reviews outweighs 1 star reviews, however most 1 star reviews don't seem to make a coherent argument for WHY it's only worth 1 star. Instead you tend to get:" I think its cr*p". Which does not help. Although I'd accept some of the 5 star reviews are equally pointless....however I do agree with cobb that overall given enough ratings they tend to lead you to a reasonable conclusion on a particular album. I don't agree that only forum members should be able to submit reviews. Although they may generally (but not always) be well written, it smacks of "Prog Elite" and means you are restricting the number of reviews to a particular community. |
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Marc Baum
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 30 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 259 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 08:52 | ||
I totally agree with your statement. Some time ago there was also a zero star rating possible in the archives and the administrators thankfully deleted that option. I gave also 1 star reviews, but only to three or four records. I feel sorry about it, but it was also a "hate it" thing. Even the records we don't like have somehow special qualities, it's only hard to find these if you "hate it". Also these records should be rated with two stars, because there are for sure people out there, who find something to like about it, so for fans and collectors recommendable.
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"All you need to do is sit back, and acquire the taste." - GENTLE GIANT
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The Wizard
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 18 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7341 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 08:51 | ||
We need to stress the actual meaning of the rating system. That may help.
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Bob Greece
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 08:45 | ||
They save you money by stopping you buying bad CDs. Some CDs really are for "collectors' only" even if they are prog. I have a problem with the 5-star reviews. There are just too many and they're not balanced out by 1-star reviews. |
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Andrea Cortese
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 05 2005 Status: Offline Points: 4411 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 08:28 | ||
I've never rated albums with 1 star! Only a pair of cds in my collection deserve 2 stars! the others are all in a higher rating's position!! |
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yargh
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 04 2005 Status: Offline Points: 421 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 08:20 | ||
I use 1-star ratings sparingly, but I do use them. I don't look at 1-star ratings as meaning that an album is completely value-less any more than I look at 5-star ratings as meaning that an album is perfect. If I did so, then I'd have only three ratings to use for 95% of the albums: **, ***, and ****, and that's just not enough. If progarchives wants to go to a 10 or (even better) 15 point system, then we can talk about the superfluous use of 1 star ratings. Until then, I'll keep giving them out. I give 1-stars to albums that I would grade a C-minus or worse. 2-Stars are for C, C+ and low B-. I use 3-stars for high B-minuses, all B's and low B-pluses. I use 4-stars for high B-pluses and all A-minuses. I use 5 stars for all A's and A-pluses. Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with giving out 1-star ratings to albums in a genre that the reviewer doesn't like. Isn't the point of rating albums to give one's honest opinion of them? If a reviewer thinks that all prog-metal he's heard are deserving of 1-star albums, then so be it. This whole thread stems for the immature notion: "nothing I like could be considered bad." |
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rockandrail
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 22 2005 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 310 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 08:02 | ||
1 star rating isn't less relevant than 5 stars'. What does it mean "essential to any prog collection"? what collection size? What if you really don't like a genre? Will it be essential that you own a record you will never play?
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Pierre R, the man who lost his signature
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Seyo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 08 2004 Location: Bosnia Status: Offline Points: 1320 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 07:59 | ||
To answer to the topic starter - Because there are quite a few bad and lousy albums out there, and I am always serious when judging the ratings. But of course it is always matter of personal taste and opinion too, developed after some 25+ years of hard-working listening experience of many diverse music...
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cobb
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 10 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1149 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 07:40 | ||
We have been here before guys- everybody seems happy enough with the idea that given a good ratio of ratings on a particular work, everything will even out
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 07:32 | ||
i think that only forum members should be allowed to write the reviews because they rarely seem to write THAT awfull reviews |
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Chipiron
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 05 2005 Location: Spain Status: Offline Points: 780 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 07:28 | ||
Maybe, the system would be better if the review had to be done for several criteria separately: rating originality, musicianship.... four or five separate items. This would force people to be more objective. Then the system would rate based on the average or I don't know how... But I assume this would be rather difficult to prepare... wouldn't it? |
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Lindsay Lohan
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2005 Location: Norway Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 07:06 | ||
THE MARS VOLTA Frances The Mute
Review (Permanent link) by Tim @ 8:38:52 PM EST, 6/1/2005 — Well the Mars Volta fan boys are out in force and I can only shake my head in bewilderment and some sadness. How can such a poor bunch of songs, always in minor keys, capped by a singer whose whining and mewling brings to mind Placebo on steroids, be rated as a masterpiece? Those who have rated it as such surely do not know much of what happened pre-1985 when it seems they must have been born. Effects and production are here substituted for music and virtuosity is valued only as a claim to 'prog' legitimacy rather than actually serving any real musical purpose. Perhaps this is an appropriate metaphor for our age - where form triumphs over substance. Sweet wet dreams, fan boys. Sad. If I could give this '-1000' stars I would...... PS - The fact that this lame band features on this site yet genuine progressives the Residents are nowhere to be seen puts it to shame.
Yep look at this review it seems that he is more in hate of the people that likes the new prog and he seems to be in rage about the residents not being on the archives (wich they are now)
Basically it seems more of a review written in hate than a serious review...atleast the -1000 stars bit is just tasteless
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Phil
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1881 |
Posted: October 24 2005 at 07:00 | ||
I agree with you, 1 star ratings are hard to justify, and seem to be
based on entirely subjective criteria. The 1 star reviews I have read
tend to be just a stream of unhelpful bile about how cr*p an album is
without any proper argument or explanation. It's usually just someone
venting their feelings, & sometimes just because an album they
don't like has just received a glowing review.
I also think in part having a rating system that limits you to between 1 and 5 stars does encourage the over-use of both the 1 and 5 star ratings. If there was a 10 star rating this might not be such an issue, especially at the "top end". Sometimes you read a review where the reviewer says e.g. "4.5 stars" - in other words 9/10 - but has to give it 4 or 5. I think it is natural, when people think something is either wonderful - or cr*p - to use the extreme ratings to make their point. However in practice whether a 10 star rating is practical or desirable I'm not sure - after all the ratings are only meant to be an indication. And I digress - your point was about 1 star ratings and your "Westlife" example of voting 2 stars with head -i.e. by following the ratings - but only 1 star by heart is a good one. |
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