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Angeldust 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 18 2005
Location: Greece
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 Topic: Have gong influences trance & ambient?
Posted: November 03 2005 at 09:10 |
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In my humble opinion i think they did in a way...But what's your opinion?
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Dick Heath
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Jazz-Rock Specialist
Joined: April 19 2004
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 09:16 |
Yes! Through Hillage's subsequent recorded work and production work there's plenty of evidence, and then the obvious: check out the double CD remix version of Gong's You, extended to over double its original length:
Gong You Been Remixed
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oliverstoned
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 09:19 |
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Daevid allen Microcosmic/Sacred geometry is real great.
Like
Mahadeva/Cosmic voyage
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cuncuna
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 09:20 |
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Everything has an influence on everything. But, if you're searching for the origins of trance & ambient music, perhaps you should listen to some contemporary composers such as Luciano Berio or that Stockhausen guy. The creators of highly manipulated electronic music are quite older than most people thinks. And, of course, they al took some elements from oriental music. Etc. By the way, also listen to Bruce Hack. If you can find something, that is.
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ĦBeware of the Bee!
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oliverstoned
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 09:47 |
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Kraftwerk and other german bands have influenced electronic music a lot.
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Politician
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 09:59 |
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Yes, particularly with "You".
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goose
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 11:38 |
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Um... trance?! I really can't imagine that, can anyone point me in the direction of samples with trance influence? Even psytrance sounds nothing like prog.
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cuncuna
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 11:50 |
It has to be noticed that similarities can be just "formal" (the shape), but the meaning behind any artistic resource is what changes. Magma's first album has a lot of John Coltrane; but Coltrane was not a prog artist... anyway, Coltrane was on fire on his experimental era. Magma took some of his sound, but with a whole different intention.
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ĦBeware of the Bee!
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Certif1ed
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 15:24 |
 cuncuna wrote:
Everything has an influence on everything. But, if you're searching for the origins of trance & ambient music, perhaps you should listen to some contemporary composers such as Luciano Berio or that Stockhausen guy. The creators of highly manipulated electronic music are quite older than most people thinks. And, of course, they al took some elements from oriental music. Etc. By the way, also listen to Bruce Hack. If you can find something, that is. |
I don't think I'd go quite as far back as Berio or Stockhausen, but I think you're on the right track: I think Can and Kraftwerk took the inspirations (and instruction, in Can's case) they got from those great innovators into the realms of trance.
Some of Pink Floyd's early ambient experimentations must also surely have set the foundations for that kind of music - and I'm tempted to think that Hawkwind are influential too. More obviously influential are Tangerine Dream.
Hillage, of course, has a legendary history in this kind of thing - and by implication, every band he's ever worked in... although there's just bound to be at least one exception I've forgotten about.
The composer Karl Jenkins is another important figure - Royal Academy trained, he joined Soft Machine for a spell, and went on to work on the famous Adiemus project.
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roaryg
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 17:39 |
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I agree with Certif1ed, but would add Klaus Schulze and Brian Eno to 1970s
developers of electronic music that is very trance-like.
I always think of Gong as closer to jazz-rock prog than trance music, but
I've only heard three or four of their mid-70s albums.
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Tim
FM, Nash the Slash, Camel
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goose
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 17:42 |
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Hang on a minute, are we talking about the same music here? Trance, the polar opposite of ambient music, with a fast bass beat and simple drum pattern, the stuff that gets played in clubs..? Tiesto? That's what trance is...
Edited by goose
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Dick Heath
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 17:42 |
roaryg wrote:
I agree with Certif1ed, but would add Klaus Schulze and Brian Eno to 1970s
developers of electronic music that is very trance-like.
I always think of Gong as closer to jazz-rock prog than trance music, but
I've only heard three or four of their mid-70s albums. |
But it sounds you've hit upon their jazz rock period, after the loss of Daevid Allen and Hillage, when Pierre Moerlin running the show, bringing in Allan Holdsworth the band - that variant of Gong has become Gongzilla and based in NE USA nowadays
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roaryg
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 18:19 |
goose wrote:
Hang on a minute, are we talking about the same music
here? Trance, the polar opposite of ambient music, with a fast bass beat and
simple drum pattern, the stuff that gets played in clubs..? Tiesto? That's
what trance is... |
Of course, you are right, however, the original question was about trance AND ambient. I was meaning ambient when I said trance. However, now I think of it, some of the 1970s ambient prog stuff rocks right along in a kind of repetitious, hypnotic way, which I guess is part of the point of trance music (not an expert on trance by any means!). I'm thinking of some Tangerine Dream (Sorceror period) and Klaus Schulze (Picture Music) which might be acceptable at an ecstasy rave.
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Tim
FM, Nash the Slash, Camel
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Syzygy
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 18:29 |
Steve Hillage worked with the Orb (as did Robert Fripp as part of FFWD) and has his own trance/ambient project, System 7. Gong, Pink Floyd and a host of Krautrock bands were a seminal influence on the trance/ambient scene, as a number of artists admitted in the early 90s - Dick Heath mentioned the Gong remixes and there were also bootleg remixes of Floyd albums (not particularly good, but it shows how influential they were).
RoaryG, some of the artists you mentioned were sampled (Klaus Schulze is sampled on Future Sound of London's Lifeforms album) and it was not unusual to hear mid 70s Schulze and TD releases in chill out rooms. Tangerine Dream have also been extensively remixed and I believe Edgar Froese has put out ambient works as well.
The trance/ambient scene threw up a lot of highly listenable music with a strong electronic prog/space rock/psychedelic influence - don't dismiss it out of hand just because you can dance to some of it.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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goose
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 19:25 |
I listen to plenty of stuff in, broadly speaking, the "dance" genre - dub, ambient, minimalist, drum 'n' bass, experimental, idm, breakbeat, breakcore. But I cannot at all understand how trance could be related to ambient. Of course the word trance is very closely related, but I've not heard of a single trance artist trying to do anything calm or tranquil, it's always loud beats. As far as I know, that's what defines trance. I'm not criticising it (although, as you may guess it's not to my tastes  ), but I'm pretty sure that's the way it is!)
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goose
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Posted: November 03 2005 at 19:25 |
Now, if someone points me to some trancey samples, it'd interest me greatly! 
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
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Posted: November 04 2005 at 00:43 |
You should try some ambient trance , like Shpongle
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Kohllapse
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Posted: November 04 2005 at 00:53 |
Logos wrote:
You should try some ambient trance , like Shpongle |
Have you heard the new one by SHPONGLE?
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Jim Garten
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Joined: February 02 2004
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Posted: November 04 2005 at 03:40 |
Shpongle's a good enough place to start for ambient trance (although he cocked up at the new album's release party in Bristol when he was so cooked, he couldn't play properly, and I believe gave the promoters their money back...). Hillage/Giraudy's System 7 are more in the full on dance area (certainly live), but they've just started a new ambient/chillout project called Mirror System, the debut album of which I'm waiting to be delivered at the moment.
goose wrote:
Even psytrance sounds nothing like prog |
Ooh, now you've mentioned my favorite dance genre... - it's true, psy-trance on the face of it has little in common with prog, but you do see similar chord structures/patterns emerging occasionally (Hawkwind being the usual touchstone here - especially on psy-trance albums by Xerox & Illumination). The interesting thing is that in psy-trance clubs, the average age is considerably higher than in most mainstream clubs (thank God), mainly because a lot of us got into it after a lifetime of listening to Floyd/Hawkwind/Tangerine Dream/Gong/Hillage (there's that name again...) - we now want dance music with a similar vibe. This also helps me as a chillout DJ, as in addition to more modern ambient vibes, I can get away with inserting Floyd & Tangerine Dream - last year this led to the rather odd spectacle of a chillout room full of munted people playing air guitar & singing along to 'Shine On Crazy Diamond'. Back to ambient though, the closest I've found to progressive rock is a German musician, Peter Mergener; his albums aren't easy to get hold of in this country, but worth the look - I'd especially recommend the live album 'Instinctive Traveller', which comes across as peak period Tangerine Dream with David Gilmour on guitar.
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 Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 19 2004
Location: England
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Posted: November 04 2005 at 05:53 |
Syzygy wrote:
(Klaus Schulze is sampled on Future Sound of London's Lifeforms album) |
In passing, anybody heard Future Sounds latest album (Harvest label seems to have been resurrected for it??); seen one review of priase but little idea of their music. Touring Australia v.soon (Melbourne area), with Gary Lucas guesting (he's on the new album too)?
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Have gong influences trance & ambient?
