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Asyte2c00 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Proto-Kaw Let Down
    Posted: February 21 2006 at 00:09

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site nad others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 00:33
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site nad others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

Neal Morse is the most outspoken (christianity-wise) prog-related artist I have ever heard, and honestly it annoys the hell out of me. The thing is I put up with the whole act to hear quality music. If all you can come up with is 'I hate christianity, so I hate Proto-Kaw now' you are loosing out. You seem to have some sort of bias towards religion and for me it's politics. I feel the same rejection on this topic when it comes to many bands these days, but if the music is good enough I can be an adult and look past these things.

The Wait For Glory didn't hit me hard until I gave it 3, 4 or even 5 listens, most modern albums only take one from being so simple. If you don't think the album is 'complex' enough I challenge you to pick an instrument (especially bass, drums, or guitar) and play the album all the way through, post it on a website for critiquing, and share it with progarchives.com+other credible music websites.

Furthermore if anyone believes Before Became After is more complex than The Wait of Glory you really need to get your ears checked, no offense to these people.

 

I am not a buddha or some sort of hindu, yet I enjoyed East of Eden. Wow, how about that....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 00:38
I have nothing against christianity it s just that i am not fond of bands who compromise music for religious undertones. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 00:40

I forgot to mention the mass quantity of bands related to christianity, especially American/British ones from the 70's and now. Start reading lyrics of all the classics, christianity is inspiration to many as well as a big lyric-influencer.

And then I also forgot to mention I fail to see at any point where christianity is a problem on any Proto-Kaw album. Where is the religious element... I don't see it?!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 00:41

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I have nothing against christianity it s just that i am not fond of bands who compromise music for religious undertones. 

And I don't like anti-every war ever CD's, but a number of bands have made them. These particular bands didn't compromise music for anti-war did they? I don't think so, and I'm pro-certain wars.

What is compromise anyways...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 00:45

I, being a Christian, do not think such matters would ruin the music. In cases where a band's music does not match my beliefs, Tool for example, I can look past it to enjoy the music, and really the only thing that bothers me about Tool's lyrics is the excessive vulgarity, but that's only a problem on Aenima. I don't think I know of any jewish, muslim, hindu, etc. bands that preach their religion in their music either. Maybe then I could relate.

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I have nothing against christianity it s just that i am not fond of bands who compromise music for religious undertones. 

I don't see where they are comprimising their music with religious elements. The music would be the same with or without such lyrics.



Edited by Moatilliatta
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 01:00
Originally posted by The Ryan The Ryan wrote:

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I have nothing against christianity it s just that i am not fond of bands who compromise music for religious undertones. 

And I don't like anti-every war ever CD's, but a number of bands have made them. These particular bands didn't compromise music for anti-war did they? I don't think so, and I'm pro-certain wars.

What is compromise anyways...



Ever hear any of Roger Waters' solo albums? Great example of music taking a back seat to the message. Neal Morse's new solo album also seemed to me to sacrifice music quality in the name of it's concept. Altough to be perfectly honest I'd take "Question Mark" with it's upbeat message of faith over the narcissistic hatred and nihilism of "Amused to Death" ANY day. It's not as much me being religious (I'm not), as much as I can't stand whiny "I Hate EVERYTHING" artists that try to drag the listener into the mire with them......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 02:57
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site and others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

 

If that is all that you get out of this CD you are complete... well I'll save it for your response which I know is coming.  The musical quality of this album is incredible so much so for a band that has recorded it's second album in 30 years.  If you disagree with you about the lyrics but so be it but it makes you a narrow minded person in my opinion.  You say nothing of the keyboard player, the sax/flute paler/bass or drummer who are not christian as you would say it.  Shall I judge ELP or others because they don't agree with my philosophy? What makes you hate so much?

Grow up!

This album is a beautiful expression of prog music. 

IF you need any more reason to disagree with this person than listen to Kerry Livgren's own words:

I know youíre a Christian. Do you try to put these messages in the lyrics ?

 

Yes and no. If Christianity  is good news, you want to tell the people good news. I want to do it in such a way that they discover it for themselves. Sometimes if you make the message to direct, itís not as adventurous as you have to dig for the meaning and thereís an element mystery in there and that would appeal to me if I was looking. Christianity is full of mysteries so thereís no end of material to work with.

 

 

Sorry, dude I am not correcting your spelling.



Edited by Garion81


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 03:48
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site and others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

 

If that is all that you get out of this CD you are complete... well I'll save it for your response which I know is coming.  The musical quality of this album is incredible so much so for a band that has recorded it's second album in 30 years.  If you disagree with you about the lyrics but so be it but it makes you a narrow minded person in my opinion.  You say nothing of the keyboard player, the sax/flute paler/bass or drummer who are not christian as you would say it.  Shall I judge ELP or others because they don't agree with my philosophy? What makes you hate so much?

Grow up!

This album is a beautiful expression of prog music. 

IF you need any more reason to disagree with this person than listen to Kerry Livgren's own words:

I know youíre a Christian. Do you try to put these messages in the lyrics ?

 

Yes and no. If Christianity  is good news, you want to tell the people good news. I want to do it in such a way that they discover it for themselves. Sometimes if you make the message to direct, itís not as adventurous as you have to dig for the meaning and thereís an element mystery in there and that would appeal to me if I was looking. Christianity is full of mysteries so thereís no end of material to work with.

 

 

Sorry, dude I am not correcting your spelling.




WOOOHOOO!!.....The Proto Kaw - Fanboy strikes back!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2006 at 11:12
Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site nad others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

i`m not a proto kaw fanboy but i would love to have this album why not send it to me
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2006 at 00:07
Originally posted by SaintVitus SaintVitus wrote:

Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site and others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

 

If that is all that you get out of this CD you are complete... well I'll save it for your response which I know is coming.  The musical quality of this album is incredible so much so for a band that has recorded it's second album in 30 years.  If you disagree with you about the lyrics but so be it but it makes you a narrow minded person in my opinion.  You say nothing of the keyboard player, the sax/flute paler/bass or drummer who are not christian as you would say it.  Shall I judge ELP or others because they don't agree with my philosophy? What makes you hate so much?

Grow up!

This album is a beautiful expression of prog music. 

IF you need any more reason to disagree with this person than listen to Kerry Livgren's own words:

I know youíre a Christian. Do you try to put these messages in the lyrics ?

Yes and no. If Christianity  is good news, you want to tell the people good news. I want to do it in such a way that they discover it for themselves. Sometimes if you make the message to direct, itís not as adventurous as you have to dig for the meaning and thereís an element mystery in there and that would appeal to me if I was looking. Christianity is full of mysteries so thereís no end of material to work with.

 

 

Sorry, dude I am not correcting your spelling.




WOOOHOOO!!.....The Proto Kaw - Fanboy strikes back!!!

 

Well at least I have a passion for something.  Actually went out and met this band to find out what they are all about.

 

What is yours, lurker?

 

I have spent over $1200 on new CD's this last year not including live concerts that does not include the airfair.  I have seen The Flower Kings, PFM, Tiles, Spiraling, Spock's Beard, Bubblemath, Nima and Merge, Greg Roberts, Steve Hacket as well as Kansas and Proto-Kaw. How have you supported the music you love?

If any one here thinks my only passion is Proto-Kaw you are sadly mistaken.

 

 

 



Edited by Garion81


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2006 at 03:45
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by SaintVitus SaintVitus wrote:

Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site and others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

 

If that is all that you get out of this CD you are complete... well I'll save it for your response which I know is coming.  The musical quality of this album is incredible so much so for a band that has recorded it's second album in 30 years.  If you disagree with you about the lyrics but so be it but it makes you a narrow minded person in my opinion.  You say nothing of the keyboard player, the sax/flute paler/bass or drummer who are not christian as you would say it.  Shall I judge ELP or others because they don't agree with my philosophy? What makes you hate so much?

Grow up!

This album is a beautiful expression of prog music. 

IF you need any more reason to disagree with this person than listen to Kerry Livgren's own words:

I know youíre a Christian. Do you try to put these messages in the lyrics ?

Yes and no. If Christianity  is good news, you want to tell the people good news. I want to do it in such a way that they discover it for themselves. Sometimes if you make the message to direct, itís not as adventurous as you have to dig for the meaning and thereís an element mystery in there and that would appeal to me if I was looking. Christianity is full of mysteries so thereís no end of material to work with.

 

 

Sorry, dude I am not correcting your spelling.




WOOOHOOO!!.....The Proto Kaw - Fanboy strikes back!!!

 

Well at least I have a passion for something.  Actually went out and met this band to find out what they are all about.

 

What is yours, lurker?

 

I have spent over $1200 on new CD's this last year not including live concerts that does not include the airfair.  I have seen The Flower Kings, PFM, Tiles, Spiraling, Spock's Beard, Bubblemath, Nima and Merge, Greg Roberts, Steve Hacket as well as Kansas and Proto-Kaw. How have you supported the music you love?

If any one here thinks my only passion is Proto-Kaw you are sadly mistaken.

 

 

 




i own about 500 Lp's and between 500 and 600 cds, i buy music and spend a lot of money for it and  i also  go to  concerts whenever i have the time and the money for it..that should be enough.
As if a music lover was characterized by the sum of money he spends on buying music....that's got to be the most stupid argument ever posted in this forum.
You seem to be a fan in the exact definition of the word: a fanatic.
Your first post in this "discussion" was insulting as well as this one too. Go on with your holy war to defend proto kaw -  i don't care as long as you leave me alone with it and stop insulting others.


Edited by Tony R
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2006 at 03:47
[QUOTE=SaintVitus]

I.
[/QUOTE

 

Outside of a very few things listed about you I cannot judge.  So if you want to Judge KL over his faith will you are no better than the man who started this thread.  Think about it. I have talked to Kerry Face to Face that is all I am saying.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2006 at 04:31
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

I have spent over $1200 on new CD's this last year not including live concerts that does not include the airfair.  I have seen The Flower Kings, PFM, Tiles, Spiraling, Spock's Beard, Bubblemath, Nima and Merge, Greg Roberts, Steve Hacket as well as Kansas and Proto-Kaw. How have you supported the music you love?

If any one here thinks my only passion is Proto-Kaw you are sadly mistaken.

Well, as long as your avatar, signature link and signature image are saying "Proto-Kaw", you can't really blame people for making that assumption.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 01:13
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

I have spent over $1200 on new CD's this last year not including live concerts that does not include the airfair.  I have seen The Flower Kings, PFM, Tiles, Spiraling, Spock's Beard, Bubblemath, Nima and Merge, Greg Roberts, Steve Hacket as well as Kansas and Proto-Kaw. How have you supported the music you love?

If any one here thinks my only passion is Proto-Kaw you are sadly mistaken.

Well, as long as your avatar, signature link and signature image are saying "Proto-Kaw", you can't really blame people for making that assumption.

 

I think if you search my posts you will see I do post in variety of things Mike.  I actually know the band so if my support is that way well so be it.  

I also feel there is an inherent lack of respect for the most part for American prog from the 70'sn general on this board so excuse me if Champion that. I don't post in threads like Prog Metal that I know nothing about.  So my question to you is have you even listened? I mean a real CD not some crappy mp3 downloads. Please understand I hold you in the highest reagrd here.

 

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 02:41

I`m listening to The wait for glory at the time I`m typing this and I find it to be a wonderful prog CD , sure it has hints of Christianity in some of the lyrics but they are done with such good taste and intelligence that makes them OK in my book ! I feel it is ashame to start a negative thread about this Band , they have done so well and up until now this is the first complaint I have read about them !  Just read the wonderful reviews this CD is getting and trust me when I say that Proto Kaw are a band worth getting into. I forgot to mention because the wait for glory has so many layers of meaning and the music is so well composed it may take 3 or 4 plays to begin to digest it properly.

One more thing theres nothing wrong with lyrics that give hope and faith in no way is this CD preachy !  I wouldn`t change anything about this recording and if Kansas had of done it I would have  been  stunned at the quality they had reached  in song quality and musical direction . this is a very well rounded CD with a myriad of progressive musical styles     

WELL DONE AGAIN Proto Kaw, seems you can`t do anything wrong      9/10 rating I would give it and thats being conservative  !!!

To be honest I find this thread insulting and pointless and should be closed due to a lack of respect of the greater prog community who judging by Proto Kaws excellent reviews does not agree with the poster (hes alone)... Its Baiting by yet another stinking Troll !!!  



Edited by Song Dance
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 03:02
I don't think either of the new albums come close to the early recordings.

Edited by Clark Ashton
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2006 at 10:33
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

Originally posted by Asyte2c00 Asyte2c00 wrote:

I was sadly disappointed with Proto-Kaw's most recent album The Wait of Glory.  After reading a plethora of reviews on this site nad others, i felt compelled to purchase this album.  However, I gave it a spin in my discman and realized i was not listening to intriguing prog, but hackneyed Christian music.

I am not christian, so none of Kerry Livgren's abstruse christian metaphors emotianlly affect me.  Furthermore, after listening to this record a few times, i am under the impression Livgren and company are making a dismal effort to proselytize listeners.  From the outset, I expected to heard a more complex Kansas, not Christian go- prog rock outfit. 

Although it has its moments, it has been marred by christian undertones. 

Its a disconcertinf album.  Refrain from purchasing it. 

i`m not a proto kaw fanboy but i would love to have this album why not send it to me
Now that I have heard this album on my computer I`m going to listen to it on my stereo. My opinion is : this is a wonderful album. I won`t even touch the Christian thing as I don`t see that it matters. This is great progressive music.
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