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Mandrakeroot 
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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 Topic: Jefferson Airplane/ J. Starship/ Starship
Posted: March 31 2006 at 13:13 |
Certainly the Jefferson Airplane/ Jefferson Starship/ Starship is not a group Prog. At least not like it is understood it today. Nevertheless it is necessary to consider that is not not even a froup of simple Psychedelic Rock, because to my warning was a lot more experimental and technically more goten ready with respect to other groups that blended Blues and sights Hippy. To my warning how much except for for the importance that it had in the music (also Prog) a place in situated this seems me the minimum. And they hi the center of like the salt in the chamomile tea, but for musical approach...
For always yours, Mandrakeroot.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 7659
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 13:20 |
In my opinion Jefferson Airplane made an adventurous, progressive blend of several styles (rock, blues, psychedelia), their DVD Fly Jefferson Airplane is awesome proto-prog  !
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Guillermo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 28 2004
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 814
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 13:42 |
Well, maybe Jefferson Airplane/ Jefferson Starship were Proto-prog.
"Starship" was more a Pop commercial band, without Paul Kantner.
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Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 13:54 |
I do love Jefferson Airplane but dislike Jefferson Starship. I found it very bad, especially this one: 
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 13:55 |
BUT "WHITE RABBIT" is PROG or PSYCHEDELIC ROCK?
FOR ME IT IT VERY REALLY PURE PROG!!!!!
AND NOT DISCUSS!!!
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Guillermo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 28 2004
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 814
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 14:10 |
 oliverstoned wrote:
I do love Jefferson Airplane but dislike Jefferson Starship. I found it very bad, especially this one:
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One of the most succesfull albums of their career as J. Airplane or J. Starship.
I agree that J. Starship was more oriented to Arena Rock than J. Airplane.
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Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime.
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Zepology101
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2006
Location: Antarctica
Status: Offline
Points: 340
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 14:17 |
Jefferson airplane is probably proto prog (try saying that 5 times fast!).I love them, I hear them on psychedelic XM radio all the time. I'd agree with anyone if they said that Jefferson Airplane was proto prog.
PS, this is my 100th post!
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Witchwoodhermit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 17:31 |
It's really not fair to lump all three stages of this bands career into one convenient mass. Jefferson Airplane were a top of the line psyche band. They uncaptulated the era 65-69 perfectly.The blend of folk/blues and rock with thoughtful lyrics ranging from drug experiences, sci/fi, social and political awarness and change. The Airplane had it all. Even Crown Of Creation has a definate concept album feel to it.
Jefferson Starship was more a hard headed rock band, with pop tendencies.As the decade (70's) rolled on the more commercial the sound became. Certainally not without it's success's,Jefferson Starship, lacked the overt passion and creative energy that it's previous incarnation had.
Starship, what can be said? Commercial gain was the motive. Nice little ditties designed to fit perfectly on the radio waves. Of little intent and no inspiration, Starship was little more than the caboose on a long since passed train.
As far as prog goes? Well I suppose the latter 60's work ie, Crown and Volunteers could be concidered as proto-prog. As far as I go, they'll always be "high" in the annals of psychedelia.
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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Zac M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 03 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 17:41 |
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I thought this was a poll about which band I preferred, well that would
be Jefferson Starship. If we're going to think about including any of
them, only J.A. should be a candidate, although J.S. did have its
moments (Freedom at Point Zero e.g.).
MAYBE, and I stress that as a MAYBE, Jefferson Airplane could be
considered for addition. I'm still not quite sure if I think they
need to be here yet, and the truth is, there are many acts that need to
be added ahead of them anyways.
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 23 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3323
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Posted: March 31 2006 at 23:48 |
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I would say Jefferson Starship's Dragonfly and Red Octopus were mostly Progressive Rock albums, the others are a streach. All Fly Away/Devils Den, Hyperdrive,etc from Dragonfly are a good place to look for progressive/psychedelic rock.
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 26 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 6308
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Posted: April 01 2006 at 01:16 |
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We haven't heard the same! Red Octopus is not prog at all IMO!
Edited by oliverstoned
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Man Erg
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 26 2004
Location: Isle of Lucy
Status: Offline
Points: 7456
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Posted: April 01 2006 at 04:11 |
I saw Jefferson Starship supporting Genesis at Knebworth '78. Grace Slick decided not to play so they went into prog' excess in the worst possible way.A 30 minute bass and drum solo  .They were one of two bands to be canned off(almost) that day.Devo were the others.
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 Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb.
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Witchwoodhermit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: April 01 2006 at 04:17 |
^^^Niiiiiiiiiiice!
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan
ringed by ants and musing over man.
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Guillermo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 28 2004
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 814
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Posted: April 01 2006 at 10:58 |
Man Erg wrote:
I saw Jefferson Starship supporting Genesis at Knebworth '78. Grace Slick decided not to play so they went into prog' excess in the worst possible way.A 30 minute bass and drum solo .They were one of two bands to be canned off(almost) that day.Devo were the others. |
She left the band before that concert. She had problems with the band, particularly with Kantner. She also had problems with her drinking, and the band was tired of these problems. Fortunately she recovered, and she rejoined the band in 1981 or in 1982.
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Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 19618
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Posted: April 01 2006 at 11:36 |
definitely yes in proto-prog for the airplane
no for Jeff starship 
and certainly not for Starship
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828
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Posted: April 01 2006 at 13:11 |
for me...
a HUGE Airplane fan but....
not here. For many of the same reason's I'm against the
Doors. Psychedelia was the womb in which Prog grew... but I
really think they should be kept seperate. Prog in general is not
a lyrically topical genre... it deals in art and artistic notions which
far and away in most cases are shrouded in mysticism and are not direct
and actually obtuse in nature. 'Up against the wall
motherfu....' you get the idea  ...
while lyrically powerful and well... quite direct is not
represenative of what prog was about on the lyrical side.
Musically.... they obviously were very jam orientated. The albums were
nothing more a framework for extended instrumental sections in their
live shows... which is what the Airplane was about.. regardless of
early chart sucess. I have always considered STRUCTURE to
be a conerstone of prog... the lack of any real concrete structure at
all strikes me as a benchmark for the Airplane. Then again.. few
to any bands winged it as good as they did which is why I'm such a fan
of them and the Alllman Brothers.
Just my two cents for what it's worth.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Mandrakeroot
Forum Senior Member
Italian Prog Specialist
Joined: March 01 2006
Location: San Foca, Friûl
Status: Offline
Points: 5851
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Posted: April 14 2006 at 11:08 |
Is it just consider Jefferson Airplane/ Jefferson Starship/ Starship one alone band?
For always yours, Mandrakeroot.
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Guillermo
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 28 2004
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 814
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Posted: April 16 2006 at 17:11 |
MANDRAKEROOT wrote:
Is it just consider Jefferson Airplane/ Jefferson Starship/ Starship one alone band?
For always yours, Mandrakeroot.
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I think that Starship has nothing in common with J. Airplane/J. Starship. Starship was a commercial Pop band without Paul Kantner. Even Grace Slick left Starship to record a reunion album with J. Airplane in 1989. Starship was/is mainly Mickey Thomas` band.
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Avatar: Photo of Solar Eclipse, Mexico City, July 1991. A great experience to see. Maybe once in a lifetime.
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Jefferson Airplane/ J. Starship/ Starship
