Octavarium: Why the hostility?

Richardh wrote:

If you are saying that Octavarium is rated low because of the backlash then I agree.However I suspect that is not what you are saying! My view is that Octavarium is decent.It is better than Deadwing,Hinterland and even Frances The Mute despite what Mike says.People are in no way objective about Dream Theater,neither their fans not their detractors.   You're making my point Richardh, DT fans and DT followers are blinded by their love forthe band, for them there is no guitar player as Petrucci, no drummer as Portnoy, etc, then they throw all this on our faces all day long.   I read at least 3 threads asking if Dream Theater was the best band of Prog History and one asking if Octavarium is the best album ever, and the answers from not blind followers are logical.   A fanatic question causes a reaction against the band, it's clear and natural, I don´t blame them, I blame their blind fanatics who repeat all day that DT is the best band even and sow gay ois Jon Anderson or how mediocre is Phil Collins Genesis      I also see a similar pattern with ELP and Brain Salad Surgery which often gets 5 stars from fans but only 1-2 stars from detractors but few 3-4 star reviews generally.I realise its all in the eye (or ear) of the beholder but it might help if we could step back a bit occasionally,then we might then see the wood for the trees!   That's not true Richardh, ELP is a respected band almost every person here valuates very high what ELP did until BSS.   EMERSON LAKE & PALMER (ELP) "Emerson, Lake and Palmer" ratings (112 entries) Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music (46%) Excellent addition to any prog music collection (45%) Good, but non-essential (5%) Collectors/fans only (4%) Poor. Only for completionists (0%) In the not so strong debut album, ELP gets 46% of 5 stars ratings and 45% of 4 stars (91%) and only a 4% of two star rating, not a single one star rating. (112 entries) EMERSON LAKE & PALMER (ELP) "Trilogy" ratings (107 entries) Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music (53%) Excellent addition to any prog music collection (29%) Good, but non-essential (12%) Collectors/fans only (6%) Poor. Only for completionists (0%) As you see Trilogy was voted by 53% of the people here with 5 stars, by 29% with 4 stars (This makes 82%) only 6% (6 persos out of 107) voted two stars AND NOBODY GAVE tRILOGY ONE STAR   EMERSON LAKE & PALMER (ELP) "Brain Salad Surgery" ratings (172 entries) Essential: a masterpiece of progressive music (63%) Excellent addition to any prog music collection (20%) Good, but non-essential (8%) Collectors/fans only (6%) Poor. Only for completionists (3%) In the case of BSS is even more clear, 63% voted for 5 stars, 20% voted for 4 stars (83% out of 172 ratings), only 6% voted for two stars (exact as in the case of Trilogy) and 3% voted for star (But 10% more voted for 5 stars So don't complain, it's a very high average, and the two or one star optios are not representative in compárison with the high ratings.   I'm not an special ELP fan, but I rated Pictures, Trilogy and BSS with 5 stars, the problem is that mostly Karny really harrassed everybody with his fanatic posts and Threefates (even when she has much more class) also made her part.Karny insulted every band except ELP, Threefates spoke about Genesis as not being a really Prog band and that in places as the Pink Floyd forum nobody spoke well about them, and this is not real.   ELP fans usually get angry because their albums never reach the top ten. One memnber (believe he was Ken4musiq) clearly stated that point. Face it, after BSS, ELP never released a masterpiece, and the difference with Genesis is that people simply don't care for three men era Genesis because it wasn't Prog', but people talk about ELP because they still made Prog but bad Prog in some cases.   But I consider that any person who rates Trilogy and BSS with less than three stars is crazy and doesn't really understand Prog.   Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 21 2006 at 15:15

richardh wrote: Its a fairly unfocused album..sort of hedging their bets a bit trying to keep the prog fans and metal fans on board at the same time.But that said I still think its a solid 4 star album and like you don't really understand what people hate about it.Its a 'real' prog album and a perfect serviceable one at that.Some people will say Porcupine Tree's 'Deadwing' is a masterpeice and then put down DT's 'Octavarium' yet both are very similar to me and achieve much the same thing.A lot of that is down to the idea that Steve Wilson is a genius and DT are just a metal band.Very few of us listen to music without pre conceptions and prejudice.

I totally agree with RICHARDH.  Octavarium is still a good Prog album and yes i do believe that DT is in someway attempting to please 2 different people groups.  But this should not detract from the listening experiance of Octavarium.  And yes it does seem sort of cut and paste trying to use the best songs they wrote and leave out some of the natural flow that has been there on past albums, or what Steven Wilson masterfully does with his PT albums.  But in the end DT is only 5 humans and are prone to mistakes.  But Octavarium is much better Train of Thought, in that TOT is Metal with very few Prog elements.