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Topic ClosedWhy was Syd Barrett a Genius???!

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The Lost Chord View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why was Syd Barrett a Genius???!
    Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:26
This I dont get...I like early floyd alot and i enjoy syds solo albums, but why do people constantly refer to him as a genius?
 
Why, was it because he slipped into the shadows and all for so long and went insane to the world?  It seems everyone who does this is labeled a genius, I think the word is being miss-used
 
You know whos a genius?  Probably Roger Waters or David Gilmour over Syd, I feel they achieved and did a hell of alot more than Syd ever did in the music world, and thats not a reference to popularity but musical talent!
 
Genius?  Good song-writer, major drug problems, dying young...this does not consititude genius in my book.
 
I love your early work syd, rest in peace, but your no genius my friend!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:30
People have every right to consider him a genius, since it is their opinion.  I personally don't consider him a musical genius (although by that I mean no disrespect)... but to be honest there really aren't that many musicians I would place on that calibur.  Syd was, however, a great musician and an innovator so it shouldn't be that hard to see why others might consider him to be a genius.

Edited by Bluesaga - July 11 2006 at 19:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:33
ok, i suppose, but doesnt that constitude maybe hundreds of musicians as genius?
 
I agree, it is hard for me to put people at that calibur...but maybe some people dont see it as a high and mighty stamp?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:33
Syd Barrett was sixty years old. He didn't die young~

It's a hell of a lot better than people considering Kurt Cobain to be a musical genius, at least. Syd at least had an undeniable amount of musical talent.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:36
i consider 60 to be a young age to die at, certainly...perhaps its a matter of opinion, i dont know.
 
But i guess i understand, people are entitled to their opinion on whos a genius and who isnt, im just questions "why??".
 
I feel a few musicians were genius level of musical talent, but syds not really close for me...all personal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:40
    Great innovators often get the genius label. if you look at what he did, at the time he was doing it, it could well be warranted. I don't really know. Now, he may have been 60 when he passed, but his illness took him away long before that. Sometimes it is the thought of what might have been that builds these people up.
    

Edited by bhikkhu - July 11 2006 at 19:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:46

Yeah, if his mind hadn't gone, and he had continued with Floyd, imagine what he could have accomplished. His songwriting would have gotten more mature, his guitar playing would have improved, but we'd still get daring experimentation like we heard on Piper. We could have had masterpieces greater than Wish You Were Here and Dark Side Of The Moon. You never know.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:48
Syd was a genius because he was the underground counterpart to The Beatles and other British invasion bands of the time.

He was writing music at age 13, a lot of which eventually ended up on his solo releases. And it's good music.

He wasn't just another offshoot of the 'psychedelic rock' movement; he was at the forefront of it and never got any recognition.

Plus he always had a way of putting everything under an innocent light. He wasn't afraid of experimentation, even if it meant selling fewer records. He could take the traditional love song, make it un-sappy, and put it into a context that made it magical again.

A genius for sure.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 19:51
good deal, thanks for the info, i guess it really is a supportable idea
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 20:18
Being a genius or not, is not a matter of opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 20:23
I think Syd stop writing songs before it could really develop, like Waters and Gilmour, the amount of stuff he wrote and the level of it was phenominal, he he wrote songs when he was asked to on the word go. My late grandmother suffered from Schizophrenia, and was highly creaqtive, it seem to me people when a certain level of insanity have a certain level of brillance, myu grandmother could make up amazing and novel poems at the word go like Syd could write songs, I am absolutely certain that if she could play a musical instrument she could write to the magnitiude of Syd. Look at Spike Milliagan another person that suffered from severe mental illness, no one could write comedy at the same level as he could, as they say genius and madness are often combined.



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 20:48
It just reminded me I have a friend who suffers from bipolar disorder and boy is he intellegent!, I mean he has an amazing mind, multitalented speak several languages, know detailed history of the world and political climate, is a fantastic guitarist and pianoist, he is frighteningly intellegent he has a photographic memory, I wrote this just to confirm my previous post about brilliance and sickness.

Edited by Cheesecakemouse - July 11 2006 at 20:54



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 20:50
the rerlationship between mental illness and talent doesn't exist. We know a lot of people from the past and the present that have suffered diverse genres of mental illness and could achieve a lot of brilliance in their works, but there's a giant mountain of people that were mentally ill too and never could do anything. Caligula knew that Alexander the Great and Julius Cesar were epileptics; so he started to simulate epileptic crisis to be as considered as those men were.
there's a lot of schizoprenics in the world, getting visions, etc., but only some of them are capable of persuade other persons that their visions are true and have deeper meanings. The great founders of the three monotheistic religions probably suffered from some kind of mental illness in any level, according to their own words (or the words that others atributted to them); but this doesn't mean that my sister, who is a "medium", could create a powerful cult per se just because she can "see" things. a lot of other atributtes are necessary to this: charisma, rethoric power, etc.
 
Anyway, Syd was a genius IMO, but not because he suffered any kind of mental disease. Sorry for the terrible english.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 21:01
MoodyXadi, I suggest you be careful when mentioning the founders of religion and mental illness, it will inevitably upset some people and cause a mudslinging contest.
I think though that a lot of people with bipolar disorder etc have a unique view on the world that many can't,see, but your probably write I was just speculating I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist.
Although not a mental illness but rather a mental disorder Autism and Aspergers Syndrome does make many genius's because of the way they process information differently from people who don't have, watch the movie Rain man with Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman, It explains some of it. I think Einstein and Mozart had it.



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 21:37
Originally posted by moodyxadi moodyxadi wrote:

the rerlationship between mental illness and talent doesn't exist. We know a lot of people from the past and the present that have suffered diverse genres of mental illness and could achieve a lot of brilliance in their works, but there's a giant mountain of people that were mentally ill too and never could do anything. Caligula knew that Alexander the Great and Julius Cesar were epileptics; so he started to simulate epileptic crisis to be as considered as those men were.
there's a lot of schizoprenics in the world, getting visions, etc., but only some of them are capable of persuade other persons that their visions are true and have deeper meanings. The great founders of the three monotheistic religions probably suffered from some kind of mental illness in any level, according to their own words (or the words that others atributted to them); but this doesn't mean that my sister, who is a "medium", could create a powerful cult per se just because she can "see" things. a lot of other atributtes are necessary to this: charisma, rethoric power, etc.

 

Anyway, Syd was a genius IMO, but not because he suffered any kind of mental disease. Sorry for the terrible english.


I don't think you can say it doesn't exist because the majority of sufferers show no special talent. I think there is a evidence for a relationship in certain cases. I don't see it as extreme mental disorders breeding unusual talent, but unusually talented people sometimes manifesting some mental instability. Could it be that a mind functioning on such a high level, could be a hard thing to cope with? I have actually given this a lot of thought over the years. The mind is an amazing thing. It is capable of wonderous creation, and devastating destruction. Especially to the one using it.
    
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 22:02
Originally posted by Cheesecakemouse Cheesecakemouse wrote:

MoodyXadi, I suggest you be careful when mentioning the founders of religion and mental illness, it will inevitably upset some people and cause a mudslinging contest.
I think though that a lot of people with bipolar disorder etc have a unique view on the world that many can't,see, but your probably write I was just speculating I'm no psychologist/psychiatrist.
Although not a mental illness but rather a mental disorder Autism and Aspergers Syndrome does make many genius's because of the way they process information differently from people who don't have, watch the movie Rain man with Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman, It explains some of it. I think Einstein and Mozart had it.
 
There's really very little evidence that Einstein had the disorder; and most of that existing evidence was exagerrated in an attempt to show autistic kids that they could be geniuses too. I'm not personally familar with the Mozart claim.
 
But to keep this on topic I share LostChord's sentiments. I don't see anything particularly good in Syd's writing. I find it childish to a fault. Even his influence is greatly up to debate. I think the genius lable is really overstepping it.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 22:16
I think Syd is considered a genius due to the amount of influence he had on others. His music was an inspiration for a lot of prog music and his playing style was influential to many late 60s/early 70s guitarists as well as to many of the founding bands of Punk.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 22:22
Disregarding songs such as The Gnome, or Bike, his lyrics were very original and the way he used his lyrics in both melody and rhythm were very well crafted. With that being said, he was (as we all know) the founder, and "inventor" of what would become one of Englands biggest bands of all time. Waters and Gilmour constantly say in interviews that Syd's music influenced them more then anything in there production of Saucerful.And that his music led them to formulate there own styles and progress to a new direction for there music. So basically what they're saying is that if Syd didn't make the music on Piper, they may have not made the exact music in which we hear on all their other albums. So you may only consider their post-piper music to be "genius" and some may consider both to be genius. But if you look at one of the main definitions of genius in the dictionary, it'll probably say that genius means "strong creative power" and I think that all the members of this band possesed "genius"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 22:23
Originally posted by The Lost Chord The Lost Chord wrote:

 
Genius?  Good song-writer, major drug problems, dying young...this does not consititude genius in my book.



What do drug problems have to do with being a genius? I'd agree about the drug thing you had said role model or hero, but drugs really have no reference here. Also, are you saying people who die young have no chance of being called a genius? And you just HAD to start a thread on the day the guy dies.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2006 at 23:31
he was so innovative
 
if you bring about something new that wasnt there before, and if its good, then your a genieus
 
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