Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Why was Syd Barrett a Genius???!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedWhy was Syd Barrett a Genius???!
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 20:06
Originally posted by Australian Australian wrote:

Originally posted by CaptainWafflos CaptainWafflos wrote:

Syd Barrett was sixty years old. He didn't die young~

It's a hell of a lot better than people considering Kurt Cobain to be a musical genius, at least. Syd at least had an undeniable amount of musical talent.
 
Syd was a big loss. Greg Allman and Betts  died young and they were very good musicians.
 
And don't forget he founded Pink Floyd.


Dude, you mean Duane Allman, Greg is still very much with us, as is Dickie Betts come to think of it!

You mean Berry Oakley.


Edited by Geck0 - July 12 2006 at 20:06
Back to Top
mapman View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: July 07 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 9 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2006 at 21:24
He was apparently a very talented individual with artistic vision.  He also apparently + sadly lost his grip on reality.   These are the key aspects of his life that make him an interesting celebrity figure.   I don't think it really matters if he was a "genius" or "not".   There is no question that he was innovative musically, at least for a while in his youth.  He appeared to live a very sad life for which I empathize with him.  There are many positive lessons to be learned from his life + legacy, focus on these...being a certifiable genius or not is really not very relevant.
Back to Top
rupert View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 610 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 10:55
The "crazy diamond" WAS a genius, of course. This is being posted by a NON-PF-fan so you can really take it seriously. It's a sad tragedy that it somehow seems to be the nature of what we have to call "genius" in art, that those people tend to self-distruction or, like Hermann Hesse wrote, "are bound to fail/splinter at the world". It's a thin line between genius and madman, sometimes we're both, and, well, Syd WAS. May he rest in peace !Cry
...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock !
Back to Top
philippe View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 14 2004
Location: noosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 3597 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 10:57

Syd Barrett was good at his job but not a genius...peace to his soul
Back to Top
A B Negative View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 02 2006
Location: Methil Republic
Status: Offline
Points: 1594 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 11:58
Syd Barrett was a genius. His music was profoundly important to me, more important than the later, non-Barrett Floyd (although I still love them). Yes, some of his songs sound like they are the work of someone who is on the edge of sanity but have you ever heard Daniel Johnston?
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 12:14
Originally posted by CaptainWafflos CaptainWafflos wrote:

Syd Barrett was sixty years old. He didn't die young~
 
He almost vanished after the first Floyd album, after that he was a shadow, it's almost the same as if he had  died, he was the brightest shinning star that turned into a legend between reality and dream.
 
Even the urban myths of people claiming to have seen Syd hidding by the curtains during later Pink Floyd gigs contributed to build the legend of mystery around him.

Yes, the fact that he didn't aged playing with Floyd makes him a legend and that contributes to the aura of genius created around him, nobody will ever know if he would have adapted to the new music that Pink Floyd played or if the band would have disapeared if he would have stayed.

Gilmour took Floyd to another level and was able to work with Waters in the creation and to balance both styles.

It's a hell of a lot better than people considering Kurt Cobain to be a musical genius, at least. Syd at least had an undeniable amount of musical talent.
 
I agree with that his music in Piper at the Gates of Dawn was the creation of a genius, Jugband Blues from A Saucerful of Secrets is not as brilliant and his solo albums, well are very inconsistent, some briliant moments others not.
 
Barrett had a brilliant start but a real genius have to prove that attribute along a cereer and he didn't had the time to prove it.
 
I'm not sure that Floyd would have reached the status of legend with Barrett instead of Gilmour, but nobody knows.
 
Iván
 


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - July 13 2006 at 12:22
            
Back to Top
Goldenavatar View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 25 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 147 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 14:00
Originally posted by RoyalJelly RoyalJelly wrote:

Originally posted by Goldenavatar Goldenavatar wrote:

Originally posted by RoyalJelly RoyalJelly wrote:

Originally posted by Bern Bern wrote:

Originally posted by Tony Fisher Tony Fisher wrote:

Originally posted by toolis toolis wrote:


some personal points on the subject:

1.Syd was not a genius..
2.it doesn't matter what age he died at, tottaly irrelevant...
3.there are greater music talents out there, that's for sure...
4.no one, i mean NO ONE can ever guess how Floyd would be if he didn't leave the band...my humble opinion is that he would drag the rest down with him and Roger wouldn't have the space to conceive the brilliant music of WYWH, DSOTM, the Wall and Animals.. lets face it, the guy was a different kind of song writer...
5.Syd was a bohemian, drug addict, mediocre player. This doesn't add up to a genius...
6.by the time Floyd released PATGOD, Britain's psychedelic rock scene was already very active.. he was not as influential as you think...
7.boy, if i were stoned all the time too, hell, i could put a few words together and impress you...


Well said! I agree with every word.


Exactly my thoughts too.
 
This post is rather arrogant and ignorant. Syd was a fount of creativity, and like another troubled songwriter generally refered to as a genius, Brian Wilson, even in the depths of his mental troubles, Syd could kick out 10 songs a day, maybe not all masterpieces, but jewels of spontanaeity...that's where I see the value of his contribution, especially on his solo albums. It's like you can hear the act of creation occuring in the moments he made the recording. I can think of little music that is that spontaneous and immediate, maybe in jazz once in a while, but especially in the realm of song-writing. This gave many of his songs an absolutely original rhythmic bent, since it wasn't music normal people could count, or band members could even work out together, just Syd's brain flowing through voice and guitar, creating as the ideas came to him.
 
 You can't think of much music that is spontaneous and immediate? You haven't listened to much music have you! You can go to a bar and here music that is spontaneously generated. Not only that, but it's probably considerably better than Barrett's. Jazz, blues, rock, zydeco, kletzmer, bluegrass, even classical have tremendous moments of spontanaeity. The only music I can think of off the top of my head that probably has no spontanaeity is serialism.
 
 Concerning busting out 10 songs a day, so what? By your own admission, some of them weren't that great. Plus, there are many prolific musicians out there. If you want to consider someone who really is instrumentally virtuoso and amazingly prolific, consider Prince. Make all the jokes you want, the guy can play!
 
 The original list was far to kind in my opinion. Barrett was not even a mediocre player. He was an awful guitar player. Anyone who listens to "The Madcap Laughs" and thinks, "Whoa, great guitar technique," must not know much about guitar. Don't get me wrong, I like Syd's solo work, but I can at least admit he was not an instrumental talent.
 
 Concerning his influence: it takes more than influence to be considered a genius, quite frankly. Kurt Cobain had tremendous influence over players for the last ten years. And I don't see too many people here claiming he was a genius. Please don't either.
 
 Finally, consider people who really are geniuses by all accounts. I personally can only think of one person whom I consider to be a genius. And that is the master himself, J. S. Bach. I'm hesistant even to apply the word to Mozart or Beethoven, much less someone from the British Psychedelia movement. It seems to me if you're throwing the word "genius" around with that much whimsy, you clearly don't think it means the same thing I do.
 
As always, my humble opinion.
 
I wrote "I could think of little music that was THAT spontaneous and immediate", meaning it shows a greater degree of spontanaeity than most. As a musician, I learned a lot about the act of musical creation by listening to Syd's unique solo music, which is not simply about mechanical technique. I'm also not for throwing around the word genius so lightly, but would rather spend a few words of kindness on the passing of a great artist (by any measure), by pointing out the many positive aspects of his contribution than spewing out negative vitriole to sully the memory of someone you're not in the position to appreciate. Maybe you should go try creating something that good instead of pissing on the ones who could?
 
 Even with your clarification, I still have to wonder about the lack of spontanaeity in the music you must listen to. Syd's formless style amounts to little more than a few major and minor chords thrown together. And let me reiterate, I LIKE Syd's music. I DO appreciate it. But I'm not fooling myself about his talent. I recall, years ago a friend of mine and I were listening to some of Syd's stuff. There were off-key notes all over the place and Syd actually comes in at the wrong time (in his own music!). You know he's wrong too because he corrects himself. My friend remarked, "He's trying so hard."
 As for myself, as a musician, I learned a lot about the act of musical creation by writing four voice chorales and studying tonality. (You're the one who brought up pissingLOL). Bring on the insults!
Back to Top
bucka001 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 16 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 864 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 15:27
Originally posted by Baggiesfaninuk Baggiesfaninuk wrote:

Without Syd, Floyd would not have evolved into what they are now.
 
I'd prefer the comment "With Syd still in the band, Floyd would not have devolved into what they are now."
 
He was a genius.
 
Speaking of controversy, there are a lot of alternative, left field music lovers (possibly not on this board) who feel that PF went south with Dark Side and everything thereafter. PF became the "safe" mind blowers for the masses; very middle-of-the-road rock dressed up with sound effects to give the illusion of ground-breaking creativity. It's only my opinion, but I found them completely unchallenging and boring. Of course, given their status as billion-sellers, that's a minority view.
 
Piper, however, was (to me) the best psyche album ever. There is a *legitimate* lunacy there that's fun, awe-inspiring, and ground breaking. Syd took that beautiful craziness with him when he left. It's like the West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band, but much better and with a leader who was more interested in art than getting girls (ala Bob Markley)... and I love WCPAEB.
jc
Back to Top
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46828 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 16:05
with all due respect to the recently departed...


genius is a term that is WAY overused... a tragic figure to be sure but nowhere close to a genius for god's  sake.
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
KazimirMajorinc View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie


Joined: February 23 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 71 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 20:00
For me he is genius

   genius = outstanding creativity &
   Piper = one of the few best and most original rock albums

That's it.

This thread is stupid, and the question is too oppinionated for debate.

I think nothing is too oppinionated for debate.

Back to Top
Asyte2c00 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 15 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2099 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 21:41
Ben Jonson once said when describing Shakespeare's work
 
"He was not of an era, but for all time."
 
 
The quote above vividly describes the influence of Syd Barret on generation of musicians as well as a generation of music. 
 
Notice how we are not extolling Comus, Trees, and Quckmessenger Service at the same level as Barret.  Barret did something others failed to do, his contemporaies lacked a vision he uniquely possessed.  Only select few musicians with similar mental instabilities would reach the lofty heights of his genius (Nick Drake (manic depression), Ian Curtis (Epilepsy), Kurt Cobain (suicidal depression). 
Back to Top
kebjourman View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 393 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2006 at 23:29
im so happy to see all these people defending syd, i was strarting to think that no one here really appreciated him
 
 
Smile
 
Back to Top
Rocktopus View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 03:25
Originally posted by bucka001 bucka001 wrote:

 
Piper, however, was (to me) the best psyche album ever. There is a *legitimate* lunacy there that's fun, awe-inspiring, and ground breaking. Syd took that beautiful craziness with him when he left.


I agree.
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Back to Top
rupert View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 610 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2006 at 14:29
To specify my comments: A GENIUS is an over-all talented child at play which, in its innocence, can't do anything wrong, and that's exactly what Syd WAS, no daubt about it, you don't have to like his music in order to agree. A well known sign of genius is that a genius starts needing/searching for PROOF it's still the same... no matter what he does, you know ? He's diggin' deeper and deeper wanting to prove to himself he's able to do EVERYTHING he wants to, and thereby loses his innocence which is no less than the ABILITY to believe that everything is alright.
Dug it ? God have mercy on all genius-type of human beings, god have mercy on Syd !
...I'm a musician/singer/songwriter, visit me on www.reverbnation.com/rupertlenz and there you can choose from 125 recordings you can listen to ( for free ) if you're not limited to prog-rock !
Back to Top
T.Rox View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 06 2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 9455 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 22:24
When a man can get an RIP placard on a traffic bridge in Fremantle, Western Australia - half a world and half a lifetime away from his brief flirt with fame - it says something about his lasting influence ... whether or not any of us believe he is a genius!
 
"Shine on you crazy diamond"
 
RIP Syd Barrett
 


Edited by T.Rox - July 16 2006 at 12:42
"Without prog, life would be a mistake."



...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.521 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.