common prog generalisations

Just bought the King Crimson - Epitaph CDs (I have to say it's totally awesome, I love every songversion on it and the small book that comes with it is very interesting too, I actually got moved by it...... what wouldve happened if that band woulve stayed together? omg, i can only imagine) and I read those generalisations about prog (written by R.Fripp):

1. the generation of rock which became known as "progressive" is characterized by bombast, exaggeration, excess, self-indulgence, pretension and long solos (by any instrument in the group), i.e. Prog is subtle, NOT.

2. All Prog is appalling - the feeble pseudo-mystical concepts, unintelligible words, fantastic album covers, dopey clothes, bitty and formless music, the rythm suspect and peculiar which no-one can dance to, or would want to unless deranged by drugs - and as its most favourable it should be hated by everyone.

3. The musicians were all prats.They probably still are, but now they are fat and bald old prats.

4. Prog is universally derisible, and is derided by anyone other than acid casualties, unreformed hippies and the witless.

5. The most successful Progressive bands in its Golden Age were Yes, Genesis, ELP and King Crimson.

6. The main culprits of Progressive rock bands in its Golden Age were Yes, Genesis, ELP and King Crimson, But everyone else was terrible too.

There always been a tug of war in the hearts and minds between no nonsense ''unpretentious' music and ambitious colourfull music.You can never straddle the 2 things or fudge it.Prog needs to be played by ''prats'' who believe they are creating great masterpeices otherwise you just get bands who churn out the usual formulaic crap.Robert Fripp knows this and so is just being self effacing.

Well I think that prog got most of the pretentious label.. but it wasn't the only game going on then.  I think most of the larger rock acts were just as pretentious as the prog bands... look at Queen, David Bowie, Led Zeppelin...  I was reading a statement by Buddy Rich the other day... about being dragged to a Zep concert by his daughter... it was sort of funny... lets see

From Buddy Rich: http://www.jazzprofessional.com/interviews/Buddy%20Rich_6.ht m

Listen, I had a surprise the time Kathy, my daughter got me out to see Led Zeppelin, when they played Madison Square Garden. I wasn't too anxious to go, but I went, to please Kathy. We sat fairly much in the front, and for what seemed to be the first year that they were on there, I endured it—not a change of tune, not a change of a melodic line, but the heavy organ, the heavy guitar and the drum. The finale was a drum solo—and he had maybe two million dollars' worth of drums up there; I think Carl Palmer's the only other guy I've ever seen with so many drums. He started playing and during the course of his solo a cat came out in a loincloth, with a torch; he started dancing, and the drummer was playing the tom-toms, or whatever he was doing. Obviously he had asbestos in position, because this cat set fire around the set of drums. Now, I don't know what that does for a drum solo, but it scared the hell out of me—I thought the joint was on fire! I'd no idea what was going on. But when you have to resort to that, you're saying in essence to the audience: "I don't really play that well, but look how brave I am."

Certif1ed wrote: threefates wrote: I endured it—not a change of tune, not a change of a melodic line, You clearly have no ear for a tune or melodic line - this is Led Zeppelin you're talking about? The Madison Gardens concert? Oh, but I forget... You like ELP!!!

Excuse me Cert, old boy. I do believe you have failed to read the whole of Ms Threefate's post.This is by no means a criticism of your good self, it was obviously a genuine over-sight. In fact I apologise to you for any embarrassment I may have caused you and in future I will get my man to have a quiet word with your man who will discreetly point this out to you.

I believe it is Buddy Rich making the observation.

hehe!

i can see why some people say prog is pretentious but why i like prog is because you can never get bored of an album you bought. take can for example, their tago mago i bought a year ago, and ive listen to it at least once or twice a week, but im still not boresd of it. other music just goes "clappi clappi!" while with prog, im still surprised when ive listened to an album more then 100 times.

please don't start putting KC down .... their first lineup made the best prog-LP ever, its the most creative, unique and beautiful stuff out there, and it came out of nowhere (since it was the first prog album). Please finally understand that!!

They should've stayed together ... reading that booklet in my Epitaph-set almost makes me cry

Certif1ed wrote: It was an easy mishtake to make... Sorry for mis-quoting you there, TF And *thanks* for so politely pointing it out to me, Reed

Just proof there Cert that you don't pay attention as well as you should

Since when would I start calling a dancer "some cat in a loin cloth"...