Skill vs. Talent - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

threefates View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215

Posted: January 06 2005 at 13:51

ivan_2068 wrote:

That’s the main problem guys, I’ll take an example the song Pirates from Works, nobody can deny it’s a song that requires great technical skills and ability, but when the track reaches the central part keeps repeating the same keyboard solo without almost variations.

I think I've listened that song about a million times and I still hear something totally different about it every time. I think you hear what you want when it comes to ELP. I think you look at them the same way non-proggers look at prog...

Almost the same happens with Fanfare for the Common Man, but with the difference that a mediocre band with 10% of the skills of ELP did their own version (5 years before ELP called Movement for a Common Man) and it was really good from start to end despite they were not excellent musicians.

Actually I heard this done live a million times and never played the same way twice.. so I have no idea what you're even referring to here... I heard this done a few months ago.. when the middle part had parts of Trilogy, Take a Pebble, Tank and The Barbarian.. all rolled into a little 7 minute solo. Excellent actually!

Both songs turn boring, predictable, endless and you wish the authors would have made it halve the length, take on the other hand Close to the Edge (So people won’t say I only use Genesis as an example), it’s a great song but Rick’s solos are fabulous, imaginative and incredibly beautiful, the song never bores you, even when it’s twice the length of Pirates. Not true... there are boring parts... I'm always hoping it will get to I Get Up, I Get Down quicker....

That’s the problem with ELP, all are truly skilled, but their project failed after 4 or 5 albums, BSS and Trilogy were their peak (what a peak!!!!) (Actually their project never failed, they just gave up on it after Works 1 - Works 2 and Love Beach was just for the record companies.) but Works I was a bit disappointing (except Palmer's side) because it was more of the same, lots of skill, endlless solos but lack of variations, (Greg's side has no similar variations whatsoever, so that actually invalidates all you've said...)and the later albums are even worst, Works II is absolutely predictable (Works 2 is actually a bunch of songs that didn't make it on other albums... each song is so completely different from the next that calling it predictable is about as believeable as the rest of your arguement) and Love Beach or In the Hot Seat, no matter what their hardcore fans believe were terrible albums according 99.9% of the prog’ audience. But not 99.9% of ELP fans.... Love Beach has "An Officer and a Gentleman" which takes up the entire side 2... thats a beautiful piece of music!

And you skipped Black Moon...

The last years ELP was only a stage band with none or very few releases, so people could see how talented they are performing a concert. That was more due to human relations within the band... which was always a problem anyway... and still is evidently

Jethro Tull is a band that kept a lower profile, nobody will say Ian Anderson or their always changing members lack of skills, but they are not in the level of a Keith Emerson or Carl Palmer, but with all those limits, they managed to keep the interest of the listener for many more years than ELP jumping from Blues oriented Prog to Folk and pure Rock & Roll, they showed talent, versatility and imagination. According to those who heard Ian Anderson singing in concert here in Montreal in Oct. and on German tv last month... his voice is shot as well... so I guess you should keep up also.

THIS IS ELP

JrKASperov View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904

Posted: January 06 2005 at 14:08

Two words that prove skill beats all:

Bill Bruford.

Epic.

Garion81

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338

Posted: January 06 2005 at 14:12

ivan_2068 wrote:

Ivan, I think the solo suffers from the synth sounding the same as the rythym keyboard sound vs Mogg over hammond. I did not care for his reliance on that particular synth sound since he used it in lieu of the hammond but techincaly that solo is very good.

Fanfare for the Common Man off of Works 1 was recorded in one take with the band playing "live" in the studio. Do not confuse this as some slick production piece.

"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"

lobster41

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 08 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 115

Posted: January 06 2005 at 14:30

I'll go for inspiration over talent any day.

I personally like much of Dream Theater, for example, but I am not thrilled with "Train of Thought". The reason: they got away from song writing and made a bunch of tracks that they could (impressively) solo to. Earlier albums contained songs that happened to have great playing on them. (My opinion for what its worth).

On the other hand, Fish era Marillion is far superior to present day Marillion. Why? They have the same musicians, and certainly none of them have lost any talent. The difference is the passion that Fish had for the material. Listening to him sing "Script" or "Sugar Mice", especially live, you knew it meant something to him. Much of "Misplaced Childhood" was personal for him. Now you have Hogarth (who is a better singer) and Helmer writing stuff like "Love can be as hard as algebra". And that's from their best post Fish album!

I can't play guitar well. I'll never be in a band (I'm too old, and I don't look like Justin Timberlake). But if I were to sit down and write a song, I would prefer to put my energy into the song, and not the solo.

arcer

Prog Reviewer

Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239

Posted: January 06 2005 at 14:51

A solo's just a solo, but a good cigar is a...

no wait...

a solo's just a solo but a complete song is that rare thing - something that can alter your whole mood.

Most of the proficient musos on the forum will know that feeling of soloing by muscle-memory, using speed and a blur of meaningless notes to cover what is essentially a lack of interest or inspiration.

I'll subscribe to the Tony Banks composition within a composition school of thought, although personally I always like to hear players work within a loose framework and them extrapolate from there. Most of my favourite guitar, keyboard, whatever players do this - they seem to have a basic structure for the solo and then use the framework to hang some improvisation around.

I think if you listen to a lot of Yes, Floyd and Genesis this is the way most of their lead players worked, at least it seems to me that most of Steve Howe's work has a lot of structure and very definitely avoids the 'gimme 24 bars and let me go' school of noodling.

That though is soloing, as for technical proficiency v talent, I'll take the talent each and every day. Often I find that technical know-how gets in the way of compsotion. The more i know the less inclined i become to break the rules, the more I fall back on familiar forms. I imagine it's the same for real musicians

I have heard some amazingly technically proficient musicians over the years but by and large the urge to dazzle with meteor-shower legato gets the better of them every time and often seems to compromise their songwriting to the point of writing to fit the solo rather than the other way round - the more shred-oriented guitar players are particularly guilty of this. I honestly prefer a less is more approach, even in a more is ALWAYS more arena like prog. Indeed, gratuitous soloing just bores me these days. It's all seems a bit juvenile and smack's of a 'mine's bigger than yours' syndrome.

Talent every time.

threefates View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215

Posted: January 06 2005 at 14:53

lobster41 wrote:

Maybe thats because you don't play guitar well... but using Pink Floyd as reference.. I would find quite a lot of their songs quite boring... if it didn't have some absolutely wonderful solos by David Gilmour... most likely why Roger Waters solo stuff hasn't carried as well....

THIS IS ELP

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: January 06 2005 at 15:48

Threefates wrote:

In first place I like ELP's music, but I don't believe they are the gods of Progressive rock, not being a hardcore fan of them givs me enough distance to appreciate their high and low points. I've been blamed of different things (Some true some not) but I'm never been blamed of not being a progger.

I don't find anything new in the track, I fing a good start and an excellent ending but a repetitive middle part that could have lasted 50% oof the time and be much better.

In first place I'm talking about Fanfare for a Common Man in Works, normal mortals as most of us don't have the chance to see ELP every month. In second place, if you add three or four tracks in the middle of a song, it's no more the original song, it's a medley created for a concert.

All the time I've been talking about composition not about performing skills, because we all know ELP does great concerts.

Not true... there are boring parts... I'm always hoping it will get to I Get Up, I Get Down quicker....

Who says that? It's your personal opinion, and it's not more valid than any other person's, I find the song perfect even when everybody knows I'm not a hardcore Yes fan.

(Actually their project never failed, they just gave up on it after Works 1 - Works 2 and Love Beach was just for the record companies.)

You say tomato I say tomate, but the point is they never reached again the peak of Trilogy or BSS after 5 albums, you may say they gave up, I believe it failed for lack of versatility because no artist wants to do an inferior album even when it's only to honour a contract, but the truth it that after those great albums ELP never released another masterpiece.

(Works 2 is actually a bunch of songs that didn't make it on other albums... each song is so completely different from the next that calling it predictable is about as believeable as the rest of your arguement)

Please Threefates, Works II is full of typicall Lake ballads, this is predictable IMO.

But not 99.9% of ELP fans.... Love Beach has "An Officer and a Gentleman" which takes up the entire side 2... thats a beautiful piece of music!

Of course not for ELP fans, but for the rest of the prog world and at least 1% of ELP fans Love Beach is a terrible album often used as a an example of a bad album.

That's the problem with fans, if you go to the Genesis forum you'll find people that thinks Who Dunnit? or Ilegal Alien are wonderful songs and that Invissible Touch is a masterpiece, even when most of us believe it's crap.

According to those who heard Ian Anderson singing in concert here in Montreal in Oct. and on German tv last month... his voice is shot as well... so I guess you should keep up also.

Of course age reaches us all, maybe his voice is dead but not the music even if that is true, it took Jethro Tull 40 years to go down, but it took ELP only 5 albums (Well it took Genesis only 7 studio albums).

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

Dan Bobrowski View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5243

Posted: January 06 2005 at 16:04

I prefer a soloist who can lay down something brilliant off the cuff, improvised. They NEVER play the same solo twice.

I've read some interviews with David Gilmour who has a different approach. He lays down multiple solos, meters them all out using the backing track and splices the pieces he likes into one single solo. Then he learns the solo by wrote, begining to end and makes a few little tweeks during live performances, but maintains the basic foundation each and every time he plays it. David Gilmour is a fantastic guitarist, none the less. But that style of playing is certainly limiting.

There are two schools of thought here. Those who want the live music to be a (nearly) carbon copy of what's on the record and those who want to hear things stretched, mutated, expounded upon and completely different each time. The former is great for popular music and is very common in prog (hence the break up of the first version of U.K.) but frowned upon in Jazz circles. (Am I close maani?)

Personally, the marriage of technical ability and a strong sense of melodic improvisation is what captures my interest. I've heard plenty of highly technical players who had nothing to offer but a string of notes that left my ears tired and my mind wandering to thoughts of, "what's for dinner?"

I've heard crappy songs elevated by a melodic solo and good songs ruined by technical marvels with not a goddamn thing to say. Even technical ability comes down to the listeners personal tastes anyway.

goose

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097

Posted: January 06 2005 at 16:06

Wrath_of_Ninian View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 04 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 230

Posted: January 06 2005 at 16:58

Ivan wrote:

"That's the problem with fans, if you go to the Genesis forum you'll find people that thinks Who Dunnit? or Ilegal Alien are wonderful songs and that Invissible Touch is a masterpiece, even when most of us believe it's crap."

Dont you mean 'rubbish'...?

Only joking. Honestly.

I think you made some good points there Ivan, though perhaps Fanfare & Pirates are not the best tracks to judge Emerson's technical legacy on. And hell, I'm going to agree with you on the end of ELP's potency after BSS. Whilst I did like Emerson's Piano Concerto, I've found everything else they released pretty formulaic. By that I mean it sounded like they'd lost their inspiration and were writing for what they thought Emerson, Lake & Palmer had become, rather than with their own inspiration. I think they'd forgotten what the 'band' was about, and more importantly, WHY it was so good in the first place.

Happens to the best of 'em....

Wizard/TRueStar View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 04 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 675

Posted: January 06 2005 at 17:33

Gooooooooooooood Topic!!

I also thought there was a fine line between talent and ability. Ability is just a means to expand your talent. Talent: the beutiful music you create or your ability (in that sense) to achieve so (music). However you do not need skill/ability to accomplish "music". It's all in your head anyway? So wait, is there a such thing as skill? Statistical things like speed and technique, don't you decide what those are and define them for yourself.

I think they are both important and the combunation of these improtant features has given us players such as the "three H's" (Howe, Hillage, and Hackett), Robert Fripp, Steve Vai and many others. They combination of these atributes are some of THE KEY FEATURES that end up defining something "progressive".

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: January 06 2005 at 17:51

Wrath of Ninian wrote:

Dont you mean 'rubbish'...?

LMAO, you almost got me , but I'm very carefully with my words

I said: "most of us believe it's crap" I'm only expressing my opinion about those songs.

I didn't said: "It's rubbish" because this would be an affirmation.

Sorry, I'm a lawyer, it's not easy to play with words with one because the way we say things is the difference between freedom of speech and a subpoena for difamation. (also joking, LOL)

Now back to the point, I agree with all the rest of your post (not only because you agree with me ). You found the word I was searching for, after BSS and Trilogy seemed they lost imagination, and forgot how great they once where.

In my case I find Piano Concerto N° 1 too influenced by Rachmaninov.

Iván

maani

Special Collaborator

Founding Moderator

Joined: January 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2632

Posted: January 06 2005 at 18:18

Jim Prog Wizard makes a very good and important (but sadly "lost in the sauce") point about Robert Fripp. Although we all know Fripp for some of his absurdly fast, multi-note stuff (like Fracture et al), he is one of the few guitarists who understands the value of "simplicity," sometimes playing just one note and sustaining it over multiple measures, or using only a couple of notes (think of his solo in Heroes - the most haunting and brilliant two-note solo ever). Fripp obviously has the "skill" of a virtuoso guitarist, and can play as fast and clean as anyone. But few of those others have the "talent" to know when to "lay back" and "say more with less." That - knowing when to be virtuosic and when to say more with less - is, to me, one of the marks of a truly talented, skilled musician. (The only other guitarist I can think of who is as good at this as Fripp is Zappa - no surprise there...)

If we dissect the solos of Emerson, Wakeman and Banks, there is almost no question that Banks' solos are the most consistently "melodic." It may be that Bank's inability to engage in the kind of keyboard "pyrotechnics" that Emerson and Wakeman are capable of is, in fact, a blessing in this regard. True, it may also be the music itself that "calls" for melodic rather than "flamboyant" soloing. And certainly both Emerson and Wakeman are capable of very melodic stuff. But it has always been one of Bank's most impressive "features" that he is so consistently melodic.

The question of whether "skill" (especially to a higher, if not exceptional, degree) is required in writing and performing prog can be answered by considering what "prog" is, by definition - or, at least, elements that most people agree are included. One of those elements is a "classical" aspect, perhaps even an "orchestral" approach (i.e., contrapuntal lines, rhythms, etc.) In order for this element to be included - for the music to be "prog" in this regard - one must have a certain degree of skill. It is not enough to be able to play a 12-bar blues - even as proficiently and creatively as Eric Clapton or Jimmy Page. Something "more" is required in the "skill" department.

Ultimately, however, all music hinges on melody. Without it, all the skill in the world will not lead to a satisfactory composition - if by "satisfactory" we are talking about something that "moves" one in a conscious or subconscious emotional way. Sure, one could write prog without it. But it would be "journeyman" music: full of technical proficiency, but completely lacking in "soul." As an aside, I had this discussion with Les Paul quite a number of times. And if there is anyone who knows about melody, it is Les, who has more hit songs, Gold records and Grammys than fit in a large room. Les always said this even about himself: that for all his technical proficiency (and, at one time, no one could touch him, even at their best), nothing he did would matter unless there was "the melody." This is one of the reasons he so dislikes much of what we call "popular" music - because there is no real melody. Sure, there are notes, and the notes move. But there are usually very few notes, and they don't move very far in either direction, or make particularly big leaps. In showing what "melody" is, Les likes to point to "Somewhere Over the Rainbow." You may hate that song. But I invite you to disengage your judgment for a moment, sit back and really listen to the melody. It starts with a jump of an octave, and moves up and down, and all around, without losing you. And consider that most of you could probably sing it (i.e., you all remember the melody) - despite how comparatively "complex" the melody is compared to most of what we listen to. How many truly "memorable" melodies can you think of in rock, in any genre? (Indeed, that is why The Beatles are considered as great as they are.)

So, skill or talent? The answer, if we are talking about prog, is both. Skill enough to make the music "prog" within the definition that includes a more "complex" structure than standard rock (and especially a more "classical" or "orchestral" structure), and talent enough to write music (i.e., melodies, arrangements, etc.) that makes people feel, or think, or react in some positive way.

Peace.

Edited by maani

Matt0001

Forum Groupie

Joined: December 27 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 72

Posted: January 06 2005 at 20:54

This is a great discussion.

For non-prog rock, skill isn't entirely necessary. Turned up loud enough, instruments will even play themselves.

But I think one thing that makes prog prog is musicians who have virtually no "skill ceiling" holding them down. However, it is not necessary to demonstrate this skill every chance one gets. Virtuosity is what makes prog prog. But subtlety and restraint is what makes good prog good.

threefates View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215

Posted: January 06 2005 at 21:55

ivan_2068 wrote:

I don't find anything new in the track, I fing a good start and an excellent ending but a repetitive middle part that could have lasted 50% oof the time and be much better.

Jeez, and I thought it was way to short...

Nah, its called a improvisation...and since there's just so much ELP (or any prog band) that can be played in a couple short hours.. they appeased their fans where they could...

(Actually their project never failed, they just gave up on it after Works 1 - Works 2 and Love Beach was just for the record companies.)

You say tomato I say tomate, but the point is they never reached again the peak of Trilogy or BSS after 5 albums,

Actually I don't get this... their peak was 5 albums.... not 2 out of 5... The self titled album, tarkus, trilogy, pictures and BSS... were all brilliant, and even tho I think BSS was the ultimate masterpiece.. I know plenty who think that any of the other 5 were...

you may say they gave up, I believe it failed for lack of versatility because no artist wants to do an inferior album even when it's only to honour a contract, but the truth it that after those great albums ELP never released another masterpiece.

It had nothing to do with versatility, but more to do with burnout. From 1971-1974, they spent an average of 2 months off the road.. Then after a couple of years traveling around trying to dodge tax issues at home, they recorded Works and spent a total of 6 months in rehearsals in Montreal and an 18 month tour... Tell me another prog band that toured that much...

Then you had Greg and Keith... 2 egos and both had that "only child" syndrome... neither were any good at sharing or compromise... by the end of the Works tour... they were ready to strangle each other... I'm surprised Love Beach was even finished...

Also Greg Lake produced all 5 of those great albums... He wasn't allowed to produce the others... so look what happened

Please Threefates, Works II is full of typicall Lake ballads, this is predictable IMO.

Now thats really comical Ivan...and shows how little you really know. You think that the song Brain Salad Surgery is a typical Lake ballad, or Tiger in a Spotlight, Bullfrog, Barrelhouse Shake-down, Maple Leaf Rag, Honky Tonk Train Blues, When the Apple Blossoms Bloom in the Windmills of Your Mind, I'll Be Your Valentine.... out of the 12 songs on that album.. only 3 or 4 are Gregs..

Of course not for ELP fans, but for the rest of the prog world and at least 1% of ELP fans Love Beach is a terrible album often used as a an example of a bad album.

Mostly because of the cover... actually the music is not all that bad. And "Taste of my Love" is starting to grow on me...

But who are you to tell them that it is?

Actually when it comes to vocals... Greg sounded excellent on all 7 studio albums.. and all the live albums from the 70s & 80s including his stint in Asia.. and then another couple in the 80s with his solo stuff and ELPowell and he sounds great on Black Moon in the 90s. He did have a horrible patch on that Box set recorded in the 90s, but then he recorded that after being on tour for 16 months... He sounded great on that Montreux dvd that just came out.. its from 97, and I've got a video of singing just wonderful on Ringo's tour.. and a clip of him singing last month on a German TV program.. and he sounds pretty good there. So vocally i think Greg could still muster another masterpiece if he wanted to...

Edited by threefates

THIS IS ELP

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535

Posted: January 06 2005 at 22:56

Actually I don't get this... their peak was 5 albums.... not 2 out of 5... The self titled album, tarkus, trilogy, pictures and BSS... were all brilliant

Again, that's your opinion as a hardcore fan, my opinion is that their peak were Trilogy and BSS.

Please don't change my words, I said it's full of typicall Lake ballads, not all the songs are Lake's ballads, 4 are credited to Lake, also When the Apple Blossoms Bloom in the Windmill of Your Mind I'll Be Your Valentine is credited to ELP but is clearly a nice and soft Lake track. There are only 8 songs from ELP members, plus 1 by Meade "Lux" Lewis, 1 by Scott Joplin, 1 by Ron Aspery/Mick Hodgkinson and 1 by Jimmy Campbell/Reginald Connelly, this means from 8 songs by ELP members 50% and one more with his clear sound means it's full of Lake songs in any language.

Mostly because of the cover... actually the music is not all that bad. And "Taste of my Love" is starting to grow on me

Says who Threefates? The cover is horrible I give you that, but all people I know give their opinion based on the music.

Also Greg Lake produced all 5 of those great albums... He wasn't allowed to produce the others... so look what happened

Please Threefates, the problem with Works I & II, Love Beach and In the Hot Seat is not Production, the sound is pretty decent, the problem is the music.

Again don't change the subject Threefates, you tried to include Ian Anderson's vocal problem due to age in your last post and I told you this was a discussion about COMPOSITION, SKILLS and TALENT, not about voice, we all know Greg had one of the most powerful voice in the market, but that's not the issue here.

Iván

Edited by ivan_2068

threefates View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215

Posted: January 06 2005 at 23:45

ivan_2068 wrote:

Actually I don't get this... their peak was 5 albums.... not 2 out of 5... The self titled album, tarkus, trilogy, pictures and BSS... were all brilliant

Again, that's your opinion as a hardcore fan, my opinion is that their peak were Trilogy and BSS.

No thats the opinion of most prog fans actually...

Sorry you can try to justify that all you want.. but 4 songs out of 12... is not even close to full of Lake ballads.. and WTABBs.. is not a ballad at all...nor does it have any vocals...

Mostly because of the cover... actually the music is not all that bad. And "Taste of my Love" is starting to grow on me

Says who Threefates? The cover is horrible I give you that, but all people I know give their opinion based on the music.

Says most of those here who ever say anything about Love Beach..

Also Greg Lake produced all 5 of those great albums... He wasn't allowed to produce the others... so look what happened

Please Threefates, the problem with Works I & II, Love Beach and In the Hot Seat is not Production, the sound is pretty decent, the problem is the music.

Says who, Ivan?? And what happened to "Black Moon".. for some reason you keep leaving that one out.. I guess thats because it was really good... and doesn't prove your theory...

I'm not changing the subject... you brought up Ian Anderson's voice,

Of course age reaches us all, maybe his voice is dead but not the music even if that is true,

THIS IS ELP

James Lee

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525

Posted: January 07 2005 at 01:47

I repect and envy skilled musicians, but if a song grabs me, I don't care whether it was played by grandmaster instrumentalists or a bunch of monkeys who accidentally knocked over instruments.

It's analogous to the Cult of Personality (no, not the Living Colour song). Sometimes the person speaking is so impressive you tend to forget that what they're saying doesn't mean much. Or, inversely, sometimes the person is so interesting that it doesn't matter...either way, it applies.

Jim Garten View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin & Razor Guru

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693

Posted: January 07 2005 at 03:50

Jim Prog Wizard wrote:

...one of the reasons I love Prog is that the best bands never do let virtuousity get in the way of their music, but use it more as an augmentation....

...Robert Fripp is undoubtably one the world's great guitar players, but in one of the best pieces of music Crimson ever made (Starless) he creates a truly haunting guitar solo using just two notes on the fretboard. That is the sign of a great musician.

Excellent points, well made, JPW!

Last year there was an example of this whole discussion in London, the G3 concert - a three way performance by (I believe) Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, and.... Robert Fripp.

Now, I am not going to get into a technical discussion about who is the better guitarist (although, I know who I'd pick every time

) - you may as well compare Gouda with Bacon - but what I would say is that although the widdly-widdly plank spanking duo were roundly cheered, Fripp was (apparently, I wasn't there) heckled, and even booed - one comment I heard was shouted went along the lines of "there's more than one string on that F++++++ thing!"

No progholes there then.....

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

sigod

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 17 2004
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 2779

Posted: January 07 2005 at 05:25

JrKASperov wrote:

Two words that prove skill beats all:

Bill Bruford.

That is a strong argument JrKASperov

I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill