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Garion81 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
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Points: 4338
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 Posted: January 08 2005 at 13:24 |
 Reed Lover wrote:
[P
Yes I know Bangs-what an arsehole! No disrespect but we are very aware of American popular culture over here.
There was a period from 1968-1977 when Prog/Rock got a fair crack of the whip in the UK-The Melody Maker & Sounds always had major features-then wallop, it all changed. Neither paper exists now! He who laughs last....................... |
No disrespect taken, Reed, it was more for those who didn't know or weren't alive at that time. We had Melody Maker imported over here so yes I know it's merits. But you had to know what stores had imported it back then wasn't like you could find it at the local grocery mart. It did have a lot on Genesis, ELP and Yes I remember and a lot of other bands we would try to find albums for. That spurned on the import hour on several LA stations. That was a very good time to be alive. 
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 "What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 13:29 |
Garion81 wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
[P
Yes I know Bangs-what an arsehole! No disrespect but we are very aware of American popular culture over here.
There was a period from 1968-1977 when Prog/Rock got a fair crack of the whip in the UK-The Melody Maker & Sounds always had major features-then wallop, it all changed. Neither paper exists now! He who laughs last.......................
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No disrespect taken, Reed, it was more for those who didn't know or weren't alive at that time. We had Melody Maker imported over here so yes I know it's merits. But you had to know what stores had imported it back then wasn't like you could find it at the local grocery mart. It did have a lot on Genesis, ELP and Yes I remember and a lot of other bands we would try to find albums for. That spurned on the import hour on several LA stations. That was a very good time to be alive. |
Yeah we did our best to promote free love throughout the seventies!
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 14:14 |
Back to the topic at hand - ELP - they're hopeless aren't they 
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Reed Lover
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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
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Points: 5187
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 14:22 |
arcer wrote:
Back to the topic at hand - ELP - they're hopeless
aren't they |
Don't understand your logic Arser:
Greg Lake is a supreme bassist and vocalist (who definitely doesnt bugger up Jerusalem) and is also a dab hand with the old pink oboe.
Keith Emerson is the greatest living pianist....I said pianist..........who definitely doesnt play like he is wearing boxing gloves and thinks restraint is a legal document preventing groupies from molesting you.
Carl Palmer was not a crap footballer who f**ked up Stockport.
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 14:24 |
apt, succinct and perceptive as always - slanderous into the bargain! can't fault your credentials for a job as a journalist
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 14:24 |
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sorry libellous
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
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Points: 5187
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 14:25 |
arcer wrote:
sorry libellous |
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Zane
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 08 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 14:36 |
I purchased BSS the day it was released.
In Toronto anyways.
Awesome from start to finish.
Imagine my surprize when my mom walked in the room
while Jerusalem was playing and she was singing the words.
She sang it as a kid in school in Britain.Blew me away
IMO one of the best LP's by ELP 
Later
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 16 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 7003
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 14:43 |
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Jerusalem was also my school's song.Apparently it's the commonest school song in Britain (which is appropriate, because mine was definitely the commonest school). This could be why I, and many other Brits, have never taken to that particular ELP track. Happiest days of your life? Pah! That's one thing Roger Waters got right on The Wall (even if the music sucks).
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'
Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 15:16 |
Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:
Arcer,
Most of ELP's lyrics are entirely awful (I say 'most' as for some reason I like the words to the song Trilogy), and many of the songs are difficult to listen to as Threefates is always keen to point out (we're clearly not in the Prog Fan Elite). I cannot help but curl up in embarrassment when Lake pines "Do you believe, God makes you breath? Why did he lose, 6 million Jews...?"
I was wondering what the hell you were talking about.. and then I saw that you were born in 1972... figures... Anyway, Greg Lake was 22 when he wrote that.. as any young man at that age he was questioning life, religion and the commercialism around him. I think the lyrics to that songs, as well as Mass in Tarkus.. are very poignant!
and there are worse moments on Brain Salad Surgery warranting more acute squirming - my brother, like yourself, found this album utterly hilarious upon hearing it, and now suggests putting it on when people are visiting to lighten the mood.
Thats evidently because you don't understand the satire...
However, as you mentioned, ELP are not alone in this field - the words on A Farewell To Kings are also hilarious, whilst the vast majority of Anderson and Gabriel's spoutings are often verging on absurdity and, for the most part are complete nonsense. I dont think though, that the majority of prog fans (certainly on this site) really give a hoot about lyrics, and are quite happy to gloss over these inadequacies in order to celebrate the musical aspects. You'll find no supporters in that respect. Personally, if ELP had been completely instrumental, I think my respect for them would be alot greater. I never liked any of the Lake tracks, and thought his lyrics and singing brought little to the band.
You should be hung by your balls from the town clock tower and forced to eat rocky mountain oysters till the cows come home....and still you would not have paid for that horrible statement!!
By the way, Sigur Ros - superb.
figures that you'd think so
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THIS IS ELP 
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 15:25 |
arcer wrote:
it's not just the lyrics I find abominable, or the
singing, which in parts is hideous (Jerusalem being
the most obvious example) - it's the music too.
On first listen I found my jaw dropping at the sheer
implausability of the band's hubris.
I think you've just lost your mind
BSS just seems to me to be the apogee of the
triumph of technical style over content. There is
almost nothing on the record that stands out as a
listenable melody (barring perhaps the 'welcome
back my friends section of Karn)
And now I know thats true... cause "Still You Turn Me On" has a beautiful melody... Benny has an easy one... and the 3rd Impression is an easy one too... However, that aside.. since when has prog been all about the melody...???
and while I can appreciate the technical fireworks
(the piano solo section of the same tracks is a good
listen) I'm just completely cold by the frenzied
assault the three make on the instruments with
seemingly little regard for what or where the song is
supposed to be going or what their fellow
bandmates are doing. BSS seems to me to operate
on a single dynamic - play loud and fast all the time.
There is zero light and shade, zero sense of
proportion.
It is one of the most musically adept but utterly
unmusical records I've ever heard (sections of Tales
come close).
I just don't get it.
There's your problem.... You just don't get it.. That says alot!
And I agree, to a large extent, about the warm glow of
nostalgia that envelops when listening to the prog
records of my teen years (and I bet there are many
here whose allegiance to the music is informed by
that nostalgia, though many would not admit it).
Doubt that! I loved the original Star Trek as a child, but I don't seem to like to watch it now.. and to me, if I want nostalgia.. I listen to the Monkees... or the Grass Roots
It's something I've increasingly noticed as I
surrender to the torpor of middle age. My appetite for
new music is slowly decreasing and my reliance on
comfort zones is increasing.
Not me, I've really gotten into listening to Starstream in the last year or so, so I can keep up with hearing all those new prog bands that Cesar makes me look at in the "Guess who this is" thread....
This is terrible but I think a natural progression. I
saw an ad in a newspaper for HMV or somesuch for
their albums of the year and I do not possess one.
This is partly because some were obviously rubbish
(the awful hip-hop, r&b etc) but also because I just
find the Keanes, Kasabians of this world extremely
dull. There is less and less new music that grabs
me.
Maybe you're not listening to it from the right sources.. or thru the correct frame of mind. Like Ninan.. maybe you're just letting yourself get too old...
I also don't think that 'being there' is the relevant
thing - i honestly believe it's coming to this music at
an impressionable age. I have younger friends
whose nostalgia and current tastes are utterly
formed by their embrace of musical cultures such as
goth or madchester or whatever.
My girlfriend attributes all of my taste in
movies/books/music to my love of mid-70s prog -
she calls it my sense of the dramatic. (strange
because my taste in classical music completely
avoids the bombast of the romantics and centres on
modern minimalism)
So I guess my theory on ELP is - gotta get them
young or you lose them forever.
Doesn't make the music any better though - it's still
appalling old tosh |
I'm thinking the appalling old tosh... might be closer to home than you think..
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THIS IS ELP
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arcer
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 01 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1239
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 15:39 |
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really 3F while I admire your slavish devotion to the
cause in some bizarre way - it borders on
fundamentalism, i think you're letting it get in the way
serious critical analysis.
I can see the flaws and faults in most of the music I
like - surely there must some things about ELP you
think are crass, boring, pompous, stupid, juvenile,
silly, overcooked, undercooked. It can't all be perfect
and if you really do think it is I suggest you see a
shrink for your obvious compulsive obsessive
disorder
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benny bouncer
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Joined: March 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 149
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 16:07 |
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i think ELP were a band who knew they had talent so they played around with it. Which other bands could put on the same album, a progressive rock masterpiece (Karn Evil) and a piece of music about a bouncer? Its all a bit of fun, variation. There is not one moment of ELP music that bores me...the slower, quieter pieces (e.g. take a pebble) are so fantastic, and then the band can move on so easily to play something that will blow you away, something fast, energetic (im not saying Take a pebble has no energy, you only have to listen to the piano parts).....but overall, they are a band who did not stick to the basics, they did not just stick to one style because it was popular at the time, they explored different routes and it payed off....
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 16:14 |
Actually this would be a good time for me to come clean on a few things. And maybe it does have something to do with growing up during those times, but before the term prog rock was thought of.. we were classifying bands like ELP and Yes and classical rock. They were bands that had taken an influence from European classical and folk music and intertwined it with rock. Thats the music I fell in love with... To me thats prog rock..
To me, just haveing a good synth sound in a band does not make them prog.. and half the bands you consider to be prog... I don't.
To me on BSS, I listen to "Toccata" and I get a real thrill... I can enjoy that just as much as I can "Still You Turn Me ON". The same with the 2nd Impression.. I think thats just incredible... You should of seen that done live... Seeing all 3 impressions done live was the most awesome thing I've ever seen...
So maybe you just had to be there.
And here's a tip: if you can't get all the satire out of the lyrics from the 1st Impression.. and you think its just hilarious... thats because you really don't get it... Cause actually its very sad.
And yes there are some numbers by ELP that I don't care for... and some I didn't care for in the beginning but now have become very fond of... but since it seems to be so important to you all to know which songs of ELP's I don't like.. I'll list them for you:
Didn't like, but now love:
- The 1st of the Three Fates (that hammond use to scare me, but now I love it)
- Jeremy Bender / The Sheriff / Benny the Bouncer - and not because they are the comedy relief songs.. but because I'm not into Keith's honky tonk piano sound... but I'm very fond of the songs however..
- Fanfare - bored me in the beginning... but once I got to watch this live... I found it incredible to watch live
- Tiger In A Spotlight
- Brain Salad Surgery (the song).. except now I really love this one
Just Don't Like:
- Are You Ready Eddy
- The Nutrocker
- Abaddon's Bolero
- Hallowed Be Thy Name
- New Orleans
- Food For Your Soul
- Barrelhouse Shake-Down
- Maple Leaf Rag
- Honky Tonk Train Blues
- Show Me The Way To Go Home
- Peter Gunn
- Love Beach (the song)
- The Gambler
- Paper Blood
- Street War
- Thin Line
I also didn't like parts of the re- recorded Pictures that they did for the Boxset... But I did really enjoy their version of Arthur Brown's "Fire" and the Nice's "Hang on to a Dream" that they did for the boxset...
Edited by threefates
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THIS IS ELP
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 16:26 |
Just Don't Like:
- Are You Ready Eddy
- The Nutrocker
- Abaddon's Bolero
- Hallowed Be Thy Name
- New Orleans
- Food For Your Soul
- Barrelhouse Shake-Down
- Maple Leaf Rag
- Honky Tonk Train Blues
- Show Me The Way To Go Home
- Peter Gunn
- Love Beach (the song)
- The Gambler
- Paper Blood
- Street War
- Thin Line
Please stop bashing up on ELP. I like Peter Gunn, it has all the best music of ELP in it.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 16:31 |
Garion81 wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
[P
Yes I know Bangs-what an arsehole! No disrespect but we are very aware of American popular culture over here.
There was a period from 1968-1977 when Prog/Rock got a fair crack of the whip in the UK-The Melody Maker & Sounds always had major features-then wallop, it all changed. Neither paper exists now! He who laughs last.......................
|
No disrespect taken, Reed, it was more for those who didn't know or weren't alive at that time. We had Melody Maker imported over here so yes I know it's merits. But you had to know what stores had imported it back then wasn't like you could find it at the local grocery mart. It did have a lot on Genesis, ELP and Yes I remember and a lot of other bands we would try to find albums for. That spurned on the import hour on several LA stations. That was a very good time to be alive. |
Ahh, I had a Melody Maker subscription in the 70s.. and altho ELP were the paper's dream in 71-73 and prog in general.... MM took a different route in 76... so even the mighty 3 sent them this letter in regard to it... which was printed in MM around the first of 77 ...
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THIS IS ELP
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 16:42 |
Why were ELP a struggling group? I thought they sold millions of albums in the seventies.
Did ELP really send such a letter? Stupid.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Eddy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 22 2004
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 630
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 16:42 |
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YEA!q interesting record threefats! punk rock pratically wiped out prog. whats funny is that punk rock started parshly because of prog from bands like neu!. on about elp. i find there music to be exilerating and colerful. no other prog band sounds so like a robot with a brain! i haqte there not prog sounds like eddy are you ready( A VERY DISTASTFUL NAME!) but their epics like tarus and the piano part on karn evil are suberb! i listen to karn eveil part at least 3 times a week. elp is a shining glory in prog.
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Wrath_of_Ninian
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 04 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 230
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 17:46 |
Threefates wrote:
"You should be hung by your balls from the town clock tower and forced to eat rocky mountain oysters till the cows come home....and still you would not have paid for that horrible statement!!
By the way, Sigur Ros - superb.
figures that you'd think so"
Brilliant!! And you're right, I probably should! I wish other folk responded like that instead getting into a semantics debate...this has been the best thread for a while.
Can't believe that newspaper cutting - especially given that Geneva has always been one of the most affluent and aristocratic cities in Europe. Could they not have said "from a bedsit in Croydon."? Or was it Melody Maker who 'edited' that bit in to make them look even more stupid?
And yes, I'm still clinging to my youth as it ebbs away - I was born in the wrong era. I wish I'd been able to see the bands I so idolise whilst they were at their creative peak, instead of now, when their output collectively resembles a bucket of MOR bile, with any semblance of what made them great, now little more than an echo left by a clanging dustbin lid.
By the way, to whoever wrote about it, I dont really believe punk wiped out Prog Rock - and especially not ELP (who did a fairly good job wiping themselves out...) Most of the established prog bands started releasing terrible music (like Love Beach, Tormato, etc), and I would wager most genuine prog fans turned to new wave metal bands like Iron Maiden and the like (who were all prog fans themselves) , for their fix of talent. Someone who's been listening to Yes and King Crimson for 8 years, cant suddenly become a punk fan over night. Can they? I think we're giving a colourful and loud, but essenitally vacuous, turgid and most of all, overrated fashion phase a little too much credit here. Lets give it back to the bands who really ruined prog - THE PROG BANDS THEMSELVES
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 08 2005 at 17:53 |
Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:
By the way, to whoever wrote about it, I dont really believe punk wiped out Prog Rock - and especially not ELP (who did a fairly good job wiping themselves out...) Most of the established prog bands started releasing terrible music (like Love Beach, Tormato, etc), and I would wager most genuine prog fans turned to new wave metal bands like Iron Maiden and the like
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Most of the prog fans turned to Rush, then Marillion as their saviours.
By this time ELP were busking outside Salvation Army Hostels, playing folk tunes and stinking of piss.
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Great ELP Debate
