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mrdfield
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Joined: May 27 2006
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Topic: Kamelot A Question Posted: September 24 2006 at 21:41 |
I know I am Rather new here to this forum, but my question is I dont really understand Kamelot being included here when bands such as Rainbow and Iron Maiden are not, I read a while back that someone thought Prog Metal should be seen as its own catagory not under the Prog Rock umbrella, I think with these type of admissions and refusals I agree totally that Prog metal comes in as its own thank you for letting me get this off my chest
Edited by mrdfield - September 24 2006 at 21:43
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: September 24 2006 at 22:30 |
Two part answer
Kamelot is drastically different than either of those two bands
Kamelot shouldnt be here
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
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Posted: September 24 2006 at 22:47 |
You're welcome... and yeah, they're cliched power metal and really not any more prog than Maiden or Blind Guardian(neither of them should be here, imo)
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SolariS
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Posted: September 24 2006 at 22:48 |
Kamelot is the definition of power metal.
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Gamemako
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Posted: September 24 2006 at 22:52 |
You know, I don't know if I agree with Kamelot being listed here, but I can most certainly differentiate them from all bands mentioned prior to this post. If you can't tell the difference, why are you listening to prog? You obviously can't understand the subtleties.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 01:55 |
Websites which list Kamelot as a progressive band: - Progarchives - Gnosis - Progressiveworld - Progressiveears - Babyblaue-Seiten (German Website) - Progtology.com Any further questions? So: Yes, Kamelot are very different from Yes (aparently) and even from Dream Theater. No, that doesn't make them non-prog.
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tardis
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 02:17 |
Hooray for that clarification!
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 02:26 |
^ thanks! But of course there are different "shades" of progressiveness. I *do* agree that Kamelot have an affinity to mainstream and ... well, simplicity - at least in some songs. But they make up for that with some really nice complex songs, and all the songs are woven together in concept albums, with recurring themes and other little subtleties that make them stand out from normal power metal bands.
BTW: the same applies for Blind Guardian (at least on three of their albums).
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 25 2006 at 02:27
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tardis
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 02:29 |
I completely agree...I have two Kamelot albums, and although there is a predominant mainstream power metal vibe, there are prog elements, especially in some of the longer songs... I haven't listened in a while though, so I should revisit the music!
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toolis
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 02:59 |
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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martinprog77
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Joined: December 31 2005
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 03:26 |
kamolot it may be power metal but is really cool band imo
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Nothing can last there are no second chances. Never give a day away. Always live for today.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 03:40 |
toolis wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Websites which list Kamelot as a progressive band:- Progarchives- Gnosis- Progressiveworld- Progressiveears- Babyblaue-Seiten (German Website)- Progtology.com Any further questions?So: Yes, Kamelot are very different from Yes (aparently) and even from Dream Theater. No, that doesn't make them non-prog.
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this doesn't prove anything... maybe if i check myself, i'll find even more sites that don't agree with Kamelot being prog...
seems to me that many fans respectfully take tech Power Metal for prog... sure, Kamelot, Angra, Eldritch and so many others have some prog elements... but, 70% of their album is pure teutonic power metal the way Rainbow and later on, Helloween first taught... given that power metal is a demanding - skillwise - genre, it's perfectly natural that they have hyper tech parts... and even the existence of concept albums doesn't nessecarily prove anything... |
You're welcome to look for websites which don't agree with Kamelot being prog ... but please then don't claim that these websites have more weight than you grant my websites. I already said it in another thread: Those things can't be proven or disproven. If there was an easy way to objectively verify the prog status of bands, we wouldn't be discussing it here!
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toolis
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 03:57 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
toolis wrote:
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
Websites which list Kamelot as a progressive band:- Progarchives- Gnosis- Progressiveworld- Progressiveears- Babyblaue-Seiten (German Website)- Progtology.com Any further questions?So: Yes, Kamelot are very different from Yes (aparently) and even from Dream Theater. No, that doesn't make them non-prog.
| this doesn't prove anything... maybe if i check myself, i'll find even more sites that don't agree with Kamelot being prog... seems to me that many fans respectfully take tech Power Metal for prog... sure, Kamelot, Angra, Eldritch and so many others have some prog elements... but, 70% of their album is pure teutonic power metal the way Rainbow and later on, Helloween first taught... given that power metal is a demanding - skillwise - genre, it's perfectly natural that they have hyper tech parts... and even the existence of concept albums doesn't nessecarily prove anything... | You're welcome to look for websites which don't agree with Kamelot being prog ... but please then don't claim that these websites have more weight than you grant my websites.I already said it in another thread: Those things can't be proven or disproven. If there was an easy way to objectively verify the prog status of bands, we wouldn't be discussing it here! | sorry, if my post came a little hard but all i wanted was to point out what you just said, that it's just a matter of opinion... but what about the rest of my post? what's your opinion?
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-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 04:04 |
^ I don't agree. I know what you're saying, and I know that sometimes people are trying to find "excuses" for getting bands listed - in prog metal both technicality and experimentality can be a big temptation.
But I don't think that that's the case with Kamelot, Angra or Eldritch. Compared to Iron Maiden or Helloween I (personally) find enough differences to say that they're prog, and the others are not. It's not a strict yes/no decision though ... On my website I now have 5 levels (6 if you count "non-prog" as a level too):
- Non-Prog - Slightly Prog - Moderately Prog (this I also call Prog-Related) - Quite Prog (this is where bands like Kamelot reside IMO - although on the edge to prog-related at times) - Very Prog - Extremely Prog (this is for the "top of the progs" - Gentle Giant - Octopus, Yes - Close to the Edge etc)
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 25 2006 at 10:06
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kashedguy
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Joined: September 17 2006
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 10:04 |
Being a pretty big Kamelot fan myself (have all their albums), I totally understand what you are trying to get at. For along time, I considered Kamelot to be just another power metal band. But if you start to pick up listening at the Fourth Legacy, or even Karma, you can begin to hear the progressive influences in their music.
It was mentioned earlier, but recently, Kamelot's music has had more of a concept for their albums recently, and the songs are often played in a power sense, but the vocals make it, to me, more prog. Epica and the Black Halo are perfect examples of the emerging "prog" in Kamelot, and a song in particular is Memento Mori, off the Black Halo.
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Jared
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 10:09 |
Yes, I have become quite a Kamelot fan of late, and am looking forward to seeing them in Cheltenham next March, very much.
I think it is their last couple of albums , especially with 'Elizabeth' on Karma and moreso throughout 'Epica', where they have given themselves a broader musical canvas and thematic intricacy...
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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 10:13 |
1. The Black Halo 2. Karma 3. Epica (IMO)
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Benjamin_Breeg
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 15:32 |
The Black Halo album by Kamelot is progressive enough to be here. The others don't. and i will say for the tenth time that i don't know why Nevermore is in the archives xD they are much progger than Blind Guardian, Kamelot and Iron Maiden
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MikeEnRegalia
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 15:49 |
Benjamin_Breeg wrote:
The Black Halo album by Kamelot is progressive enough to be here. The others don't. and i will say for the tenth time that i don't know why Nevermore is in the archives xD they are much progger than Blind Guardian, Kamelot and Iron Maiden
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I'm not trying to appear like I'm trying to recruit people for my website ... but if you like you could create an account there and try to rate a few albums of Nevermore, Blind Guardian and Kamelot. I did, and it was more difficult than I thought. I really listened to the albums and rated them song by song, and the result was rather surprising. For example I used to think that The Politics of Ecstasy was quite proggy. But when I listened to the songs I could not award more than "moderately progressive" to the songs - and half of them I rated only "slightly progressive". Blind Guardian - Nightfall in Middle-Earth is prog though - there are amazing subtleties in those songs.
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SolariS
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Joined: October 27 2005
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Posted: September 25 2006 at 19:17 |
Kamelot are only listed as prog because they play power metal, which is itself a complex genre, and they embrace common prog stereotypes (epic themes like slaying drangons, and unnecessary over-the-top pretentiousness).
In reality, they are less "progressive" than Iron Maiden was in their time, but they don't suffer the stigma of having popularity (an unwritten requirement which gets many bands excluded from this site).
Edited by SolariS - September 25 2006 at 19:19
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