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Topic ClosedProto-metal
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Poll Question: Which of these bands is more essential in the creation of the metal ge
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
21 [67.74%]
3 [9.68%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [3.23%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [6.45%]
0 [0.00%]
4 [12.90%]
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glass house View Drop Down
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Points: 4986 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2006 at 14:14

Mike said : But: at the same time I was also listening to Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple *a lot*, and I really like them. I understand how people can call Deep Purple "metal" (especially In Rock and Machine Head), but to me "Heavy Rock" seems to be the better label.- end Quote.

 
Is the period 1969-1974 important for the creation of metal? Or the period after that. If it is second option you gotta name Judas Priest.
 
Mike, if you mention heavy rock, what is hardrock?
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Leningrad View Drop Down
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Points: 7991 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2006 at 14:19
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Chameleon Chameleon wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Chameleon Chameleon wrote:

Confused Where the hell is Rush?
 
  Hold your indignation! You have the Other - please specify option.
 
  IMHo, Rush are the forefathers of progressive metal. You're right, I should've put them there.
 
 
 
sorry Ouch
 
   Sorry, I didn't want to seem rude.Embarrassed
 
Wink
 
I pick other. Tongue
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Points: 20527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2006 at 14:28
Originally posted by glass house glass house wrote:

Mike said : But: at the same time I was also listening to Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple *a lot*, and I really like them. I understand how people can call Deep Purple "metal" (especially In Rock and Machine Head), but to me "Heavy Rock" seems to be the better label.- end Quote.

 
Is the period 1969-1974 important for the creation of metal? Or the period after that. If it is second option you gotta name Judas Priest.
 
Mike, if you mention heavy rock, what is hardrock?


I think that period is very important for the creation of metal. As I said: some people called Deep Purple "metal", and I think it's justified - only *my* perspective is a little bit different. I would be more comfortable if - in retrospect - people called it "Classic Metal", just as they now call prog from that period of time "Classic Prog Rock".

As for the difference between Hard Rock and Heavy Rock: It's kind of blurry. I don't think the term "Heavy Rock" was widely used, so I guess it's a label which I created for music that is often referred to as metal, but is only heavy sounding with standard Rock song structures. I think most of Led Zeppelin's  heavier output qualifies, as well as most early 70s Deep Purple. Black Sabbath for example doesn't, as the song structures are different.

It's just my opinion though!
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Arrrghus View Drop Down
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Points: 5296 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2006 at 14:44
Though I think Sabbath is the most important founding father of metal... you have to mention Blue Cheer. They're heavier than Sabbath in some spots (and they were in the 60's!). Blue Cheer was so heavy and loud, for Vincebus Eruptum the band had to record on the New York Pier because they were too loud to be recorded in a studio! That is soooo metal!
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2006 at 14:55
Nobody mentions Uriah Heep?
 
Hey they deeserve some credit, the vocals by Byron (In the purest metal style), the distorted guitar by Mick Box, the powerfull bass lines hby Gary Thain,etc, everything points towards Metal IMHO.
 
Probably not the MOST influential or trascendental, but still deserve to be mentioned.
 
Iván
            
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Points: 5296 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2006 at 14:59
Good point Ivan! Uriah Heep deserves to be mentioned, especially for Byron's singing style (influenced many metal singers). They definately are metal!
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Points: 318 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 02:18
[As for the difference between Hard Rock and Heavy Rock: It's kind of blurry. I don't think the term "Heavy Rock" was widely used, so I guess it's a label which I created for music that is often referred to as metal, but is only heavy sounding with standard Rock song structures. I think most of Led Zeppelin's  heavier output qualifies, as well as most early 70s Deep Purple. Black Sabbath for example doesn't, as the song structures are different.

It's just my opinion though!
[/QUOTE]
 
 
I always thought of the difference between hard and heavy rock was in the tone of the writing and image the band portrayed. Heavy is not just in the loud music but it is weighty and dark, while hard is loud but it is more light in its thematic tone.
 
For example, hard rock is Guns'n roses, ACDC or Kiss, they sing about sex, drinking and rocking out. They sing about about more realist things and immediate superficiality.
 
Heavy rock would be Led Zepplin, Deep Purple Etc... They sing about broader subjects and deeper things with more of an abstract view (without branching into metal teritory).
 
I always thought there was a huge gap between hard and heavy rock and was suprised that nobody else caught on to that?
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Points: 12799 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:30
Jeff Beck is quoted on the twoferone Truth/Beckola CD set, that Vanilla Fudge inspired the heavy work heard on those two albums, of which Jimmy Page was privy before pulling Led Zep together in 1968. Hence Vaniila Fudge (for the heavy drum and bass) out of Jeff Beck (for the blues rock input)  is the probable answer.
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Tony R View Drop Down
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:44
But...LED ZEP are the most important and influential band in this equation.

Led Zep played Heavy Metal=
Led Zep played Heavy Rock=
Led Zep played Hard Rock=

"it was all the same thing back then"

Trust me...who dya believe? The guy who gives his opinion about something based on what he thinks or reads after the event or the guy who actively participated in it,was using the terms and reading the descriptions as it happened?

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Points: 12799 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:50
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

But...LED ZEP are the most important and influential band in this equation.

Led Zep played Heavy Metal=
Led Zep played Heavy Rock=
Led Zep played Hard Rock=

"it was all the same thing back then"

Trust me...who dya believe? The guy who gives his opinion about something based on what he thinks or reads after the event or the guy who actively participated in it,was using the terms and reading the descriptions as it happened?

 
Creation and influence are not the same thing, surely TR? SO I'll take your advice and  plumb for the guy who actively participated, Jeff Beck.
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:53
True but I was addressing the guys who want to tell US what is and isnt HEAVY METAL.
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Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:54
Black Sabbath from that list, trust me people!!<img 

Edited by WaywardSon - October 05 2006 at 10:55
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Points: 12799 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:56
 
Whoops - took it that your  scattergun wasn't aimed at any particular persons! So I'll now get from behind this rock.
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Jared View Drop Down
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Points: 17534 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:57
Black Sabbath....
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Tony R View Drop Down
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 10:57
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

 

Whoops - took it that your  scattergun wasn't aimed at any particular persons! So I'll now get from behind this rock.

    
Hope its a hard rock....
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bhikkhu View Drop Down
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 11:20
    Blue Cheer, Vanilla Fudge, and Jeff Beck all deserve to mentioned, but we are talking about who was responsible for the most influence. That is a tough choice between Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath. For creating the sound that became to be know as heavy metal, it has to go to Black Sabbath.

You also should consider Judas Priest. They were the forerunners of the more modern sound.
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WaywardSon View Drop Down
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Points: 2537 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 12:10

bhikkhu has a good point, Judas Priest should definitely be on that list, their 70´s output was really quite progressive while their ´80´s was more straight forward metal.

Here is a very early clip (with a long haired Halford on vocals)
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Jared View Drop Down
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Points: 17534 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 17:40
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

 

Whoops - took it that your  scattergun wasn't aimed at any particular persons! So I'll now get from behind this rock.

    
Hope its a hard rock....
 
no, but it is a rock in a hard place....Big smile
Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson
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Tony R View Drop Down
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Points: 11979 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 17:44
Originally posted by fandango fandango wrote:

Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:


 

Whoops - took it that your  scattergun wasn't aimed at any particular persons! So I'll now get from behind this rock.
      Hope its a hard rock....[IMG]smileys/smiley2.gif" align=middle>

 

no, but it is a rock in a hard place....[IMG]height=17 alt="Big smile" src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>



At Dick's age he has no hard places...
    
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Points: 5296 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2006 at 17:45
Originally posted by WaywardSon WaywardSon wrote:

bhikkhu has a good point, Judas Priest should definitely be on that list, their 70´s output was really quite progressive while their ´80´s was more straight forward metal.


Here is a very early clip (with a long haired Halford on vocals)



    

How the hell is "Breakin' the Law" progressive?
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