Underworld

I sent a band submission to the given email address with all the requirements on Friday, and I'd just like your opinion on whether this band is prog or not. I think they're very progressive, as in detail below. If they're not, why would the forum poll last year show that of the top three favourite other artists, one is Genesis?

Anyway, here's my email:

Hello,

I would like to submit a new artist to ProgArchives. The information is listed below.

Artist Name: Underworld
I believe Underworld should be added to Prog Archives because they are a truly progressive band. They are expanding music and treading new ground as we speak. They have combined the symphonic elements of Classic Prog such as Yes, Genesis, and Emerson, Lake & Palmer by creating long compositions with several different movements, and albums with common threads all the way through, with Krautrock with their electronic instrumentation, and finally with House music with their distinctive beats. Their 1996 album 'Second Toughest In The Infants', and their 1999 album 'Beaucoup Fish' showcase this the best.

Biography:
In 1979, Karl Hyde met Rick Smith working at a restaurant, and invited him to join a band he was in, 'The Screen Gemz', who released one single, and then turned into a band known only as a squiggle for a few years, and radio DJs became frustrated, so CBS Records convinced them to make a pronunciation, and they came up with 'Freur'. They released two albums under this name, 'Doot Doot' (1983) and 'Get Us Out Of Here' (1985) mostly recording slightly Krautrock influenced europop, and then went through some line-up changes, and became Underworld. In 1987 they released 'Underneath The Radar', followed by 'Change The Weather' in 1988. These two albums were mostly funk and europop influenced. They toured with the Eurythmics in 1989. By 1989, all of the members had left for other projects except for Karl Hyde and Rick Smith. Karl and Rick decided to take a new experimental direction, and in 1990, became a trio with the addition of Darren Emerson. From here on out, this is the progressive Underworld that is called MKII by most fans. After a myriad of extremely odd progressive and experimental singles, they released what is considered their true debut album by Underworld fans in 1994, entitled 'Dubnobasswithmyheadman', a mostly techno-oriented album with a long composition in two sections, 'mmm skyscraper i love you'. In 1995 they made a radio hit with a remix of one of their songs called 'Born Slippy (NUXX), and recieved much applaud from DJs. In 1996, they followed up with 'Second Toughest In The Infants', which took a more progressive direction than before, featuring two 15+ minute songs in sections. In 1999 they released 'Beaucoup Fish', their most accessible album in their MKII period, but also one of their more progressive. This album carries a theme of love and a relationship with a woman throughout it, and features three long compositions, 'Cups', 'Kittens', and 'Moaner'. In 2000, after their 'Everything, Everything' tour, Darren Emerson left the band to pursue other projects. Karl Hyde and Rick Smith wanted to try an even newer direction, so they used many different instruments and tried to incorporate a world element to their music with their 2002 album 'A Hundred Days Off'. This year, they have completed the soundtrack to the film 'Breaking & Entering', and are currently working on a new album with new member Darren Price.

Country: UK

Prog Genre: Krautrock / Prog Related / Art Rock

Band picture:
http://myspace-760.vo.llnwd.net/01240/06/72/1240032760_l.jpg

Official Website:
http://www.underworldlive.com
http://www.dirty.org

Discography (I'll only include the ones in the MKII era, relavent to Prog Archives. If you'd like the other releases, please respond)

-Dubnobasswithmyheadman (Album, 1994, Darren Emerson, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith)
-Born Slippy (Single, 1995, Darren Emerson, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith)
-Second Toughest In The Infants (Album, 1996, Darren Emerson, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith)
-Pearls Girl (Single, 1996, Darren Emerson, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith)
-Beaucoup Fish (Album, 1999, Darren Emerson, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith)
-Everything, Everything (Live Album, 2000, Darren Emerson, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith)
-A Hundred Days Off (Album, 2002, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith)
-Breaking & Entering Soundtrack (Soundtrack, 2002, Karl Hyde, Rick Smith, collaboration with Gabriel Yared)



Examples of their work:

-'Second Toughest In The Infants' starts with a 17 minute epic in three pieces: 'Juanita / Kiteless / To Dream Of Love'. It begins with a techno beat and distorted vocals, and goes into a keyboard solo, followed by a quiet section, a reprise of the beginning, and finally the end.

-The second song, 'Banstyle / Sappys Curry', starts out with a soft keyboard melody and some nice lyrics, but then evolves into an acoustic guitar piece.

 -'Cups', on their 1999 Beaucoup Fish, starts as a jazzy soft tune with smooth lyrics, but it quickly evolves into a rapid keyboard solo at the end, and clocking at 11 minutes, the longest on the album.

-A further example is 'Cherry Pie', a B side which starts out with a mesmerising synth pattern, and fades into a very elabourate instrumental.

-Finally, their latest example is from 2002's 'A Hundred Days Off', a song called 'Little Speaker', which evolves from a vocal piece into a keyboard bit.

Since my mail account cannot handle such large attachments, I will upload the zip file with the above songs to BigUpload.com, in the format specified (Band-Album-Track Number-Title).

Here is the link:
http://www.bigupload.com/d=A032D832

If the link is expired by the time this reaches you, please mail me back.


Thank you,
Daniel

Well, it is techno, but it's also progressive, similar to Progressive Jazz (ie: Brand X). You can't say that Brand X is rock, but you can say it's prog. In a similar way, you can't really say Underworld is rock, but you can say it's prog.

I would say that they meet the requirements for prog:

• Long compositions, sometimes running over 20 minutes, with intricate melodies and harmonies that require repeated listening to grasp. These are often described as epics and are the genre's clearest nod to classical music. An early example is the 23-minute "Echoes" by Pink Floyd. Other famous examples include Jethro Tull's "Thick as a Brick" (43 minutes), Yes' "Close to the Edge" (18 minutes) and Genesis' "Supper's Ready" (23 minutes). More recent extreme examples are the 60-minute "Light of Day, Day of Darkness" by Green Carnation and "Garden of Dreams" by The Flower Kings. check
  
• Lyrics that convey intricate and sometimes impenetrable narratives, covering such themes as science fiction, fantasy, history, religion, war, love, and madness. Many early 1970s progressive rock bands (especially German ones) featured lyrics concerned with left-wing politics and social issues. no check
  
• Concept albums, in which a theme or storyline is explored throughout an entire album in a manner similar to a film or a play. In the days of vinyl, these were usually two-record sets with strikingly designed gatefold sleeves. Famous examples include The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis, Tales from Topographic Oceans by Yes, 2112 by Rush, Dark Side of the Moon and The Wall by Pink Floyd, and the more recent Metropolis Part II: Scenes from a Memory by Dream Theater and Snow by Spock's Beard. Aqualung, perhaps the best-known record by Jethro Tull, is often regarded as a concept album due to its recurring themes, but songwriter Ian Anderson has always claimed that the album is just "a bunch of songs". check
  
• Unusual vocal styles and use of multi-part vocal harmonies. See Magma, Robert Wyatt, and Gentle Giant. check
• Prominent use of electronic instrumentation — particularly keyboard instruments such as the organ, piano, Mellotron, and Moog synthesizer, in addition to the usual rock combination of electric guitar, bass and drums. check
  
• Use of unusual time signatures, scales, or tunings. Many pieces use multiple time signatures and/or tempi, sometimes concurrently. Solo passages for virtually every instrument, designed to showcase the virtuosity of the player. This is the sort of thing that contributed to the fame of such performers as keyboardist Rick Wakeman and drummer Neil Peart. check- there are keyboard/guitar/electronic choir solos (don't believe it's mellotron but not sure)
  
• Inclusion of classical pieces on albums. For example, Yes start their concerts with a taped extract of Stravinsky's Firebird suite, and Emerson Lake and Palmer have performed arrangements of pieces by Copland, Bartók, Moussorgsky, Prokofiev, Janacek, Alberto Ginastera, and often feature quotes from J. S. Bach in lead breaks. Jethro Tull recorded a famous cover of J. S. Bach's "Bouree", in which they turned the classical piece into a "sleazy jazzy night-club song", according to Ian Anderson. Marillion started concerts with Rossini's La Gazza Ladra (The Thieving Magpie). Symphony X has included parts by, or inspired by, Beethoven, Holst and Mozart. no check
  
• An aesthetic linking the music with visual art, a trend started by The Beatles with Sgt. Pepper's and enthusiastically embraced during the prog heyday. Some bands became as well-known for the art direction of their albums as for their sound, with the "look" integrated into the band's overall musical identity. This led to fame for particular artists and design studios, most notably Roger Dean, whose paintings and logo design for Yes are so essential to the band's identity they could be said to serve the same function as corporate branding. Hipgnosis became equally famous for their unusual sleeves for Pink Floyd, often featuring experimental photography quite innovative for the time (two men shaking hands, one of whom is in flames, on the cover of Wish You Were Here). H.R. Giger's painting for Emerson Lake and Palmer's Brain Salad Surgery is one of the most famous album sleeves ever produced. check- they intricately design their album covers to match the albums with a design collective called tomato, of which they are prominent members
  

Progressive rock compositions sometimes take the following forms:

• A piece that is subdivided into movements in the manner of a classical suite. Examples are the four-part "Close to the Edge" by Yes, six-part "Hemispheres" by Rush, and the seven-part "A Change of Seasons" by Dream Theater. All of TransAtlantic's epics are multipart. check- juanita - kiteless - to dream of love
  
• A piece that is composed of a patchwork of musical themes that could conceivably stand as individual songs, but together serve to relate a complete narrative through music. Examples are "Supper's Ready" on Genesis' Foxtrot (the "Willow Farm" section of which was played as a single), "A Day in the Life" on Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band by The Beatles, Jethro Tull's Aqualung from the album of the same name, and "The Gates of Delirium" on Yes's album Relayer (from which the single "Soon" was taken). check- the second half of 'mmm skyscraper i love you' could stand as a song on its own
  
• A piece that allows the development of musical ideas via progressions or variations in the manner of a bolero or a canon. "King Kong" on Frank Zappa's Uncle Meat is an example. not sure what this means, unless it means that they make music that doesn't sound like anything made before them, which they do. i won't count this one.

that's 8/10 requirements met (9/11 if you count the last one), and some bands on this site meet less of those. frankly, i'm not sure how you could argue that it's not prog. that's y'all's definition, by the way.



Edited by bryantm3 - October 22 2006 at 20:11

"Pearl's Girl" recorded in 1996 is definetely a spacey/electronic Prog track, I remember it when I was younger, I found it very trippy sounding.


It does sound like trance music, from what I've heard. possibly if most of their music matches up that song, or any thing else progish maybe "Progressive Electronic" would be the genre tahey could fit as???????

I don't know enough about them, but I heard them on radio and television.


Edited by PROGMAN - October 23 2006 at 18:31

Underworld was rejected. I sent two emails:

May I ask for some details? I put a lot into that submission, and I have no idea why you would reject them. They meet most of the requirements for prog (see my thread in the 'New Artists' forum on your website). How you can put bands like Radiohead and even the Nine Inch Nails on your website and reject Underworld, I will never understand. While Underworld isn't really rock, they are truly prog. Last year they released a 25 minute epic in seven parts entitled 'Pizza For Eggs' which features extended guitar and keyboard soloing. If that's not prog, I guess I just don't know what prog is. Or maybe "prog" is another word for "pretentious elitists".
-Daniel.

Sorry for the abruptness of the last email, but I truly believe that rejecting Underworld is a disservice to the prog commmunity. Compare Underworld to Tangerine Dream or Brian Eno, both of whom appear on your website, and are not rock musicians at all. While Underworld may not be rock, they certainly deserve a space in the "Progressive Electronic" section of the website. Please reconsider.
-Daniel


I cannot understand why they would reject Underworld but keep Eno and Tangerine Dream. It seems like a double-standard to me.

bryantm3, the decision to reject Underworld was taken by relevant genre team as, after listening to your samples, they felt the style of music belonged in the club, dance and techno arena.

chopper wrote: bryantm3, the decision to reject Underworld was taken by relevant genre team as, after listening to your samples, they felt the style of music belonged in the club, dance and techno arena.

whatever. it's your loss.
however, i would reconsider hosting such bands as tangerine dream on this website. just because they recorded in the 70s doesn't mean they're more prog than underworld. that is, indeed, a double standard, or percieved one-upmanship.
in addition, i won't bother submitting any other bands to this website.


Edited by bryantm3 - October 24 2006 at 18:03