Women In Prog? |
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pammiwhammi
Forum Groupie Joined: June 29 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Topic: Women In Prog? Posted: October 24 2006 at 11:08 |
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Why aren’t there more women in prog?
I’ve asked myself this question repeatedly ever since I became aware that what I played was called “progressive rock.” It would be really easy to write it off as genre-specific sexism and leave it at that, but I’m not comfortable leaving pat definitions unexamined. If I accept that definition then I end up asking myself “Why am I such an anomaly?” If I look at other female musicians I know, they fall into one of two categories; Highly trained classical musicians from an upper-middle class background, or folk singers who are frequently marginally skilled, musically speaking, usually from a lower-middle class or working class background. This would seem to imply that the more leisure time one has, the more time one can devote to practice and honing musical skills. While I think that is part of it, I also think that the age one starts playing can affect one’s musicianship and style. Now, a bit about my background; I started playing around the age of 13, on a junk guitar that I received as a gift from my Aunt Marge, bless her besotted heart. I have a theory that if my home and school situation were different none of this might have ever happened, and I’d be one of your late-blooming lesbian folk singers strumming an Ovation and caterwauling about the emotional torment of my latest failed relationship. But I was from a dirt-poor family, which had serious alcohol problems. Since there were no relatives who lived within walking distance where I could escape to, my only recourse was to lock myself in my room after school and play. I had friends nearby, but the first rule of growing up in an alcoholic family is Appear Normal. Had I constantly imposed on my friends it would have eventually become obvious there were problems at home. It didn’t help that I was flat-chested, pimply-faced and unattractive. After each day of social invisibility at school I would arrive home to a drunken family fight, lock myself in my room and pour all my pent up hurt and frustration into learning chords from the Roy Clark Guitar Songbook and trying to apply them to the stock of Creedence Clearwater Revival albums I’d pilfered from my brother. Then one day my brother came to visit. He plays guitar too, but he’s a blues player. Up to this time (about the age of 15) I had no idea there was more interesting music out there. The radio was hardly a revelation, playing the disco hits of the day. My brother had brought some Jimi Hendrix, Black Sabbath, and Cream albums for me to listen to. I was amazed that a guitar could make those sounds; I threw myself into learning them to the point of missing school. Suddenly I was ordered to school counselors, who were alarmed at my “lack of normal social development.” I just didn’t find boys to be all that interesting, and my friends who constantly talked of nothing but boys became a bore too. I didn’t dare talk about sex or sexuality…this was the late 70s in a semi-rural Michigan town. I felt a deep sense of isolation at not being “normal.” This sense of alienation became a motivation to play more. I found myself falling asleep, guitar in hand, late at night, to be awakened by the building feedback. I’d also started drinking; it seemed the thing to do, with no other familial yardstick for comparison. One day a drinking friend turned me on to Frank Zappa, and I discovered the world of progressive rock. Ever since, it seems, people have given me grief for playing and writing it. Male musicians I’ve jammed with have actually said things like “you play pretty good for a woman” and my female friends tell me I should “play womyn’s music” which I actually did try to do for a while till I was bored to tears. It seems in my case a unique combination of social alienation; alcoholic household, poverty and a chance listening to Frank Zappa gave me the keys to progressive rock. Had I come from a better socio-economic background I would have probably taken up classical piano or violin. Sometimes I regret the time I spent playing, when I probably should have been out doing other things with my friends, but at the same time it probably saved my sanity. |
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"I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress..."
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 11:31 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
interesting question. but is there any difference between prog and all rock genres? there are very few in all rock. from recent times, i remeber the vocalist from skunk anansie, she made the greatest impression on me.
there could be two answers - 1.rock was and still is a very "male" culture, and 2.when it all began with rock there were two impediments, first that in the 60s it wasn't considered decent for a woman to get involved in such un-decent activities, and second it actually wasn't a women-friendly enviroment: alcohol, drugs, vomit, exhausting tours... i think the status-quo is in debt to the way things were then.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 11:37 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Here's some previous threads:
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Neil
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 04 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1497 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 11:55 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I have found that the majority of women that I know do not like prog music. Certainly where I used to work if I played anything that wasn't 4/4 with a dance beat the women in the office asked me to switch it off, whilst the men in the office would usually listen (and then ask me to switch it off). There were two exceptions, Claire and Caroline who both liked rock music far more than dance, though not the really deep prog stuff.
Some of the explanation for this may be genetic and some upbringing. I certainly find amongst my male friends that those from the higher socio-economic groups are far more likely to be interested in prog, jazz or classical music than those in the lower groups.
I also find that friends both male and female who like prog have far more interesting stuff to say in general and can talk knowledgably about more than just getting pissed, football or fashion. They don't normally follow the crowd if you know what I mean.
Neil.
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When people get lost in thought it's often because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Legoman
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 21 2005 Status: Offline Points: 306 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 13:25 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Oh, you guys. You so silllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy... |
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ShW1
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 10 2005 Location: Sambation Status: Offline Points: 284 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 13:41 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Interesting... I dont know why there are so few weman in prog, musicians or listeners. I also payd ettention to the fact that there are much more weman in classical music (but very few weman composers, even though still better situation than on prog...) Your theory about social condition is very interesting, but i'm not sure you're right. I had a theory that the reason for weman lack in prog, is due to the fact that in the 60's-70's the male expression was much more extrovert, sexual than weman could efford themselves that times. weman's expression came wider only at the late 70's and after, when prog declined. I dont know if this theory is true or not. Also its difficult for me to understand this situation, since i'm a woman myself, and the one who instrodused me to prog at the late 70's was a girl also! Ah, and i must give my recommandation, to Carla Kihlstedt from SleepyTime Gorilla Museum and other projects, she is awesome.
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ResidentAlien
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 17 2006 Status: Offline Points: 441 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 18:29 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
...and yet they continue discussing here....
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SlipperFink
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 230 |
Posted: October 24 2006 at 19:36 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hey PammiWhammi.
We are probably about the same age. *Edit* Whoops. I just looked at the yer profile... I'm about a half a decade up on you.* I grew up SURROUNDED by women who loved prog. The first person who played me Genesis, KC, and a slew of their contemporaries was a young woman of about 14-15 years of age at the time. She was my best friends sister.. 2 years older than me and I still think my 'boyhood crush' on her had as much to do with me stretching my ears and mind to understand Prog as anything else. The labor of love as it were. HOHOHO. Anyhoo. The COOLEST chicks were always the most heavy duty progheads, and could do sh*t like whip out strange Euro versions of Secret Oyster albums covers at pot parties. So to: Lisa Zdeb - Serious Giant and KC head. Turned me on to PFM's "Photo's of Ghosts". Karen Girstner - Another Gianthead. Got me into Strawbs. Linda Williams - Prog "Uberchick". She's the one with the Secret Oyster imports. Too many bands to list. Insanely huge record collection from hell. Finch "Glory of the inner Force" is one that sticks out. Christine Coogan - Major PG Genesis fan. Including all the various offshoots, like "Voyage of the Acolyte" and all the Anthony Phillips stuff. Loaned me her copy of Trespass. I've still got it if she's out there BTW. Laurie Albegise - My "boyhood crush" chick. PG Genesis. Pink Floyd. Todds first Utopia. KC Islands. A slew of others. Donna DeCola - Renissance and Curved Air. Cathy and Robyn Curly - Nektar and Spirit(Dreams of Dr. S.). Lynnie Palmeri - Pink Floyd(Syd Barrett era) and Greenslade "Time and Tide". Nancy Ford - Later stuff. National Health. Henry Cow. Zaamla. Michelle Chamberlain - Massive Italian Proghead. PFM, Banco... You name it. Kate Roback - She was actually a Deadhead who listened to some really cool 'prog related' as well. Terrapin Station, Allman Bros. Mahavishnu, and the Seldom Scene. Dianne Hapanowitz - Van Der Graff Generator and Magma. I've got her copy of "Udu Wudu" on Tomato vinyl. Say's "DH" in huge letters on the label. Thats OK. She's got my copy of the original massive gatefold release of Nektar "Recycled" which was in STELLAR shape when I loaned it to her in 1977. I'm expecting it still is.... HOHOHO part #2. There's almost a dozen women I can think of off the top of my head, who helped shape the mantle of my listenership immensely. They weren't musicians per say... but they certainly helped me to become one, and I shall be eternally grateful to them for it. As for women musicians in prog. It does seem a limited arena. I know speaking strictly for myself... I would have been THRILLED back in the day to jam with a great female prog musician. I simply never saw any. I'm wracking my brain to think of one that I came across personally in the era's heyday... and I'm coming up blank. I'm with you. Baffled. No matter. Rock on with the Whammi Pammi. Best regards, SM. Edited by SlipperFink - October 24 2006 at 19:49 |
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andu
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 27 2006 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
Posted: October 25 2006 at 05:25 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
can't say but... Lucky man!...
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