Jarre: Progressive Electronic or Prog Related? |
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DallasBryan
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 23 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3323 |
Posted: November 04 2006 at 05:55 | |||||||||
In 1976 Oxygene set the rock industry on its ear, the British protested it was not progressive rock, because they seemed to feel they invented progressive rock, it was electronic with rock melodies.
Surely the genre grew and matured and needed more avant twists to it, but Oxygene and Equinoxe were revolutionary to progressive rock. JMJ had alot to do with the genre gaining exposure worldwide. Yes, he produced plenty of crap later, so did Genesis, Yes and Jethro Tull. So what, give him credit as the first mainstream progressive electronic artist from France.
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
Posted: November 04 2006 at 06:11 | |||||||||
I have read an interesting biography about JM Jarre: he grew up in a middle class enviroment (his father was a famous composer) but he was emotionally neglected. He compensated this by recording and taping in his own room, there was the foundation of his fascination with knobs and wires and his megalomaniac behavior on stage. This was deeply rooted when he fantasized, again alone in his room, about being widely appreciated.
Anyway, he deserves to be considered as a pioneer who made some great, very pivotal electronic albums (I love Oxygene and Magnetic Fields, this is absolutely no pop) and who contributed to a worldwide recognition of the synthesizer Edited by erik neuteboom - November 04 2006 at 06:34 |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: November 05 2006 at 17:37 | |||||||||
In 1976 I thought of JMJ as Electronic Pop - nothing more or less.
Now, I realise that it's fairly sophisticated Electronic Pop, but not really anything more than that - at least, in the 3 or 4 albums I own. He's not exactly Tomita, is he? |
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Bj-1
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 04 2005 Location: No(r)Way Status: Offline Points: 31157 |
Posted: November 05 2006 at 17:39 | |||||||||
Progressive Electronic.
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
EXERIOR Experimental tech/death/progmetal from Norway! |
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I|I|I|I|I
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
Posted: November 05 2006 at 19:29 | |||||||||
I still don't understand how one could consider Jarre to be pop - the pop music of that day was A) not instrumental, B) shorter, and C) based on more verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus structures. Jarre doesn't really have any of that, as far as I can tell.
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: November 06 2006 at 17:53 | |||||||||
Because Oxygene Pt 6 was a successful hit single and played in the discos with it's catchy little 4/4 beat.
Pop music "of that day" was instrumental if it wanted to be - just as it could be in the 1960s (Shadows) |
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micky
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 02 2005 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 46828 |
Posted: November 06 2006 at 18:06 | |||||||||
Christ almighty hahaha.. we do all see prog differently... but pop... sure I guess.. same as Yes I guess who are often called a 'trumped up' pop group. Look no further than their inspirations hahhaha. Lord knows I respect your opinion Cert but while my listens to Oxygene date back only to about 78 or so... it sure sounded like no pop I've heard. Not that I"m an expert on E.P. or pop for that matter |
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I|I|I|I|I
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
Posted: November 06 2006 at 20:16 | |||||||||
Yeah, Yes had a few singles... as did Pink Floyd... as did a few other progressive bands.
It CERTAINLY doesn't qualify those bands as Pop, however. |
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I|I|I|I|I
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
Posted: November 07 2006 at 16:50 | |||||||||
Well, I know this poll has only been up for a few days, but it *appears* as if most people agree that Jarre is progressive electronic.
I'll wait for a few more votes, though. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: November 07 2006 at 22:58 | |||||||||
This is Philippe's call as team leader and his team, this was already discussed and I don't believe there's turning back.
BTW: I absolutely support his decision and 12 votes are not really representative.
Iván
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I|I|I|I|I
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
Posted: November 07 2006 at 23:58 | |||||||||
Well, let's leave this poll going. At the very least, it proves that sometimes, even team leaders can be wrong.
I understand that Progarchives is not a democracy, but still, the opinion of a majority can sway the opinion of those who are in power. I gaurantee you, we can leave the poll up, but the ratio of opinions will be about the same: 75% for progressive electronic and 25% for prog-related. It probably won't even journey outside of a 33%-66% ratio. |
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Zac M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 03 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3577 |
Posted: November 07 2006 at 23:59 | |||||||||
I say Prog-related, as I initially said when his move was proposed by Phillipe.
Edited by Zac M - November 08 2006 at 00:00 |
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"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."
-Merleau-Ponty |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 01:10 | |||||||||
Tomita's ouch and uh-oh (except one album and half of an other album) to my ears. --- okay,some thoughts over what has been recently posted:
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 01:15 | |||||||||
The real problem is that Progressive Electronic means 100% Prog and Jarre is far from that.
He's an electronic musician because he plays electronic instruments but this isn't the same than Electronic Progressive.
If it was for me, Jarre won't even be in Prog Related.
Iván
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 07:28 | |||||||||
As I write, it's almost 50-50 - 12:5
Tomita is incredibly inventive - just not as good at choosing "nice" sounds as Jarre, so most of it sounds somewhat "ouch", and I would go as far as to agree with "uh-oh". However, I think it's not the packaging, it's what's inside that's important. Which brings us nicely back to Jarre...
Yes, I agree - but the difficulty is in quantifying this - after all, ABBA, the Bee Gees and Earth, Wind and Fire all wrote some very high quality Disco-oriented music to the point that all came up with worthy compositions.
Not sure what you're trying to say here - what is this "disastrous question?".
That's as may be, but Oxygene, Equinoxe and Magnetic Fields do have extremely popular elements - and they're the albums he's mainly known for.
He uses electronic instruments - so do most pop groups. Shall we say that Soft Cell, Visage and Tubeway Army were Prog-Related or Progressive Electronic? They ONLY used electronic instruments and in a very progressive way. It's hardly their fault it caught on and became popular.
Philippe just KNOWS, you know |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 12:09 | |||||||||
okay, let's play the quoting game.
I'm afraid I don't appreciate Tomita's transpositions (except the Pictures good resonance). Making things artificial is something I truly hate when it happens over at electronic. On the opposite factor, squeezing emotion out of buttons is a crafty thing.
Yes, I agree - but the difficulty is in quantifying this - after all, ABBA, the Bee Gees and Earth, Wind and Fire all wrote some very high quality Disco-oriented music to the point that all came up with worthy compositions.
I'm just asking if there's anything wrong with Jarre being popular, while many other - some pivotal - came and went with the period. Disastrous by being a slightly flaming one. An inconvenient fact.
I don't judge "pop" as "popular". I judge pop as sweet easy music that attracts the heart of a simple man. Jarre, to its most heartfull sense, is not the artist to slam some notes and to call that the kitsch effect. It's only an impression to me (or to you; or to them!) that an ABA composition such as the one on Jarre's classic album's hits relevates a pop sense. Out of interest, let's just forget about Oxygene 4, Equinoxe whatever hits the best and Magnetic Fields ta-ra-ra-ta-ta-ta part 2. How does the rest of those albums, reaching from luminous to deep and from epic to succing, sound?
He does more than using instrument. He manipulated his style, he squeezed - as I've said - more that button,note and et caetera, he created a dimension out of the minimal range of his instrument. Technique being much more. You're incredibly devalorizing Jarre's intentions as an electronic musicians, I'm sorry to say that. |
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I|I|I|I|I
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 12:31 | |||||||||
Sorry, 50-50 would be a 1:1 ratio, or 12:12. 12:5, even when rounded 12:6, is a 3:2 ratio or 66%-33%. So even as it stands now, we still have the ratios I predicted. Edit: Also, it appears a lot of you have a different concept of "pop" than I do. Apparently, your defition of "pop" is that the music is simple and easy. How absolutely incorrect is that! There is plenty of pop music that isn't necessarily sweet nor easy, and there is plenty of non-pop music that is sweet and easy. The correct definition of "pop" music is that it is "popular"... and even by that definition, many bands like Pink Floyd could be considered pop and yet we most definitely know they are progressive. So really, our arguments over whether Jarre is "pop" or not are futile - both mine and yours, since no matter what, you have both pop and non-pop bands that have similar characteristics. Jarre is an artist that may have characteristics of popular music, but he is still progressive, much in the same way Pink Floyd is progressive or Kraftwerk is progressive. They also made relatively simple, easy music, but for some reason, it is still beyond "popular" music. Jarre is the same. And some of his musical ideas are actually not that "easy"... I hear a good amount of classical influence in Oxygene 1, some non-metrical experimentation, things like that - which is certainly "difficult". So how ever you want to argue it, the only way Jarre is "pop" is in that he was somewhat popular, but that is no mark of whether or not an artist is "progressive". Edited by I|I|I|I|I - November 08 2006 at 12:37 |
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Stefanovic
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 01 2006 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 287 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 12:35 | |||||||||
from a french perspective, Jarre is no more than moody electronic elevator music...
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I|I|I|I|I
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 10 2005 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 12:40 | |||||||||
Well, no offense, but this is from the perspective of ALL western music.
And when dumb disco and three-chord punk music is the most popular western music, Jarre is most certainly progressive. |
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301 |
Posted: November 08 2006 at 12:43 | |||||||||
let's try more profoundness into definitions. Pink Floyd made it out to a massive audience, but does that really resemble the "popular", fully, of it? Even more, how can the relation between Jarre and Floyd be possible, even in popular terms. I agree with some prog over at Jarre, put Floyd valences are indeed to high to think of, for Jarre. |
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