Tuva Throat Singing |
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 14 2006 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
Topic: Tuva Throat Singing Posted: November 29 2006 at 08:04 |
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When I find out this, I was astonished...but I'm sure some of the members here are familiar with this music...
http://khoomei.com/vids.htm www.huunhuurtu.com www.fotuva.org/music/index.html This is folk music as proggy as you can get, I guess Do you like it? What do you think? Your comments please! |
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: November 29 2006 at 11:31 | |
Hurrah!!!... Finally, someone else besides me found Tuvan throat singing. Huun-Huur-Tu is just amazing! Actually, I have their first four studio albums -- 60 Horses in my Herd, The Orphan's Lament, If I'd been Born an Eagle, Where Young Grass Grows. Amazing, amazing, amazing... I was lucky to see them in the concert -- imagine a situation -- being a child, I read folk tales, where once the throat singing was mentioned -- then heard little bits of it here and there, on the TV (for some seconds) -- and after 25 years (!!!) of dreaming and waiting I get the chance to see them at the concert -- it was stunning -- both the 25-years old dream which finally came true and the concert itself -- they really do this.
I have over-emotions for a while -- some other comments on Huun-Huur-Tu, other groups, Tuvan throat singing, and throat singing at all will come later.
Another site I know is overtone.ru, with the samples (I'm not sure, though, whether there's information in English; if you are able to read and understand cyrillic alphabet it may help; anyway, try this site too).
And welcome to the world of the throat singing!!!
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Visitor13
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 02 2005 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 4702 |
Posted: November 29 2006 at 16:25 | |
Wonderful. Thanks for the links.
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 14 2006 Location: Croatia Status: Offline Points: 4160 |
Posted: November 29 2006 at 18:06 | |
You actually saw them? Wow! What does the performance look like? Is the singer doing some unusual moves with his head, throat, mouth...or what???? |
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: November 30 2006 at 11:51 | |
Nothing unusual. The singer moves his lips, but so does the regular (non-throat) singer too. He just does it in his own way, but the trick is not in lips moving, it's really somewhere in the larynx. (Searching for "throat singing" in the Internet you may find some description of the techniques). Singers use both vocal choirds (i.e. "normal" singing) and a larynx, sometimes simultaneously, sometimes not. When they are four on the stage, it's quite difficult to point out who does what. Don't forget, however, that they also play, and this is not the less important part of the performance.
The numbers may be divided into two categories -- plain throat singing exercises and mixed songs (there are also instrumental numbers, but they are rare). In mixed songs you may hear real songs, sung in usual way, accompanied by the instruments, plus the throat singing moments -- it may be done by one of the singers while others sing "normally" or one may just switch from one register to another.
Plain throat singing numbers represent different styles of it -- khoomey, sygyt, kargyraa, ezengileer, borbangnadir, chylandyk... They are either wordless (i.e. it's just sounds) or almost wordless, when the singer sings a phrase, but continues it with the throat singing exercises.
Traditionally there are some standard numbers, which have to be played and sung by any singer in similar way. For us it'll sound all the same, and only experts may say which one of the singers/players sings/plays better. It is utterly interesting, but only for several first listenings. The main difference between Huun-Huur-Tu and most other performers is that Huun-Huur-Tu play also songs (Tuvan folk songs, also intended to be sung by the throat), with their own arrangements. Notice also that they use exclusively Tuvan folk instruments (except for the very seldom used acoustic guitar, whose sound doesn't contradict the overall folk sound). Therefore they sound much more interesting. Also, they are an ensemble, while traditionally the singer should be alone (historically it developped from the lone singing, without a crowd at all -- people sang it while shepherding the herds of horses or sheep or while riding, mostly for themselves).
More comments about other groups and other kinds of throat singing are still to come...
By the way, you may see and hear Huun-Huur-Tu on youtube, but beware!!! -- you'd better don't -- I got rather bad impression from that performance (and I know how really great they are and should be), so, don't spoil your taste and first positive impression. Edited by Fassbinder - November 30 2006 at 11:52 |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12801 |
Posted: December 01 2006 at 09:00 | |
Nobel laureate and one of the greatest physicists ever to live Prof Richard Feynman was a huge fan - and amongst a number of TV documentaries he made mostly on fundamental particle physics, there is one of Mongolian throat singing!
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: December 01 2006 at 09:48 | |
Yes, that's right. One of the Feynman's dreams was to visit Kyzyl (the capital of Tuva). This dream never came true -- the Soviet borders were closed for some reasons, and Feynman didn't manage to see the Tuvan throat singers live. But Ted Levin did, and, thankfully to him, Huun-Huur-Tu became known outside the Soviet Union.
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: December 25 2006 at 18:51 | |
The throat singing is not exclusively Tuvan tradition, though the Tuvan one is the best, in my opinion. There are different kinds of throat singing also in Altay, Khakassia, Mongolia -- rather large region in Central Asia which includes Tuva also. Not only the manner of singing is different from the Tuvan one, the manner of playing (more precisely -- the instruments themselves) is also not the same.
Here you can hear some samples from different bands and artists. The names of the samples themselves are written in Latin alphabet, as well as the some of the artists' names, the rest is in Cyrillic, but it doesn't matter -- just try to click everywhere where it is possible to click -- in better case you'll listen to the sample, in worse case -- you won't.
If you listen to them you'll hear the differences I was talking about -- thus, the Khakassian group Sabjilar sounds differently from the Tuvan Huun-Huur-Tu, and so does the Altay group AiAyim (and both those groups sound differently from one another), whereas the Tuvan group Chirgilchin sounds similar to Huun-Huur-Tu.
There's also the Tuvan group Yat-Kha, which was found by the former Huun-Huur-Tu member. Unlike Huun-Huur-Tu, who use only the traditional Tuvan instruments and traditional Tuvan tunes and songs, Yat-Kha use both traditional Tuvan instruments and the usual rock ones. Personally, I don't like what Yat-Kha do. It just sounds ridiculous -- a Tuvan folk song played with electric guitar and doshpuluur. (You can read what I think of that here). Also, I think that the Tuvan songs should be sung in Tuvan, and not in English (however, the singer is, himself, not a native Tuvan, and singing in Tuvan, he has a Khakassian accent (don't ask me whether I know Tuvan or Khakassian -- I don't know either of them, but I am able to point out the non-Tuvan pronunciation)). Edited by Fassbinder - December 25 2006 at 18:52 |
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
Posted: January 04 2007 at 13:58 | |
Fassbinder,
Thanks for the link. Very interesting thread. P.S. Does your ID have something to do with RWF? P.P.S. I've read your posts from the Russian Prog thread. Didn't want to interfere as I don't know it well, but I've heard a few Aquarium albums and their music is junk. |
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: January 04 2007 at 14:55 | |
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zedkatz
Forum Groupie Joined: September 20 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 58 |
Posted: January 04 2007 at 15:02 | |
Fassbinder. Saw your post on another thread so thanks for directing me here.
I'm fascinated by the whole throat singing thing. The technique of 'singing' two notes at a time absolutely stuns me. Not familiar with some of the artists mentioned but Yah Kha, Albert Kuvezin (?) and some more traditional stuff are in my collection. I find very few people who share my enthusiasm it must be said |
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Nope, can't think of anything to put here
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
Posted: January 04 2007 at 18:41 | |
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: January 05 2007 at 00:55 | |
Personally, I highly recommend Huun-Huur-Tu as they seem to be the most authentic group and, simultaneously, the most artistic one.
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: January 05 2007 at 00:59 | |
IVNORD:
Your point is clear. I simply don't like them as a group, and have huge problems with their leader's manner of representing things.
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Dragon Phoenix
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 31 2004 Status: Offline Points: 1475 |
Posted: January 05 2007 at 04:56 | |
I have only heard this as part of a Kronos Quartet CD - I found it
interesting but it did not appeal sufficiently to look for a complete
CD of this style....
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Blog this:
http://artrock2006.blogspot.com |
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
Posted: January 05 2007 at 09:34 | |
Fassbinder, You seem to have a lot of expertise in the matter (without asking if you know either Tuvan or Khakassian – how do you distinguish between the accents? Are you from that region?) After watching the Yat-Kha’s video clips, I should agree with you that throat singing In a Gadda da Vida sounds a little strange. I guess I’ll start with your choice of Huun-Huur-Tu (does it mean something in Tuvan?) What album of theirs would you recommend for an amateur like myself? Please take into consideration that I don’t expect from them melodiousness and sophistication of Rakhmaninov; I am interested in their stretching the limits of human capabilities. With that in mind, what would your recommendation be? TIA |
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: January 05 2007 at 11:32 | |
Well, IVNORD, first of all, thanks. Then, I don't know any of these languages. But I hear the difference between Kuvezin's pronunciation and that of other Tuvans (both of Huun-Huur-Tu and outside it), whereas the similarity of every Tuvan's (except Kuvezin, who is (or rumoured to be) a Khakass) pronunciation is apparent. And no, I'm not from that region. BTW, what region are you from? The following citate is from the official Huun-Huur-Tu site www.huunhuurtu.com:
"Huun-Huur-Tu (Tuvan: xün xürtü) literally means "sun propeller." The vertical separation of light rays that often occurs just after sunrise or just before sunset. For the members of Huun-Huur-Tu, the refraction of light that produces these rays seems analogous to the "refraction" of sound that produces articulated harmonics in Tuvan throat-singing. " As for recommendations, I would recommend all first four studio albums of them: 60 Horses in my Herd, The Orphan's Lament, If I'd been Born an Eagle, Where Young Grass Grows. The first two are, maybe, a little bit more representative.
And, please, pay attention that their music is not only throat singing (though it is superb) with traditional accompanement, but, unlike other artists of the genre, is a real music, Tuvan folk music masterfully played ensemble. |
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 13 2006 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1191 |
Posted: January 05 2007 at 13:56 | |
Fassbinder, I am watching them on You Tube. The singing is incredible. But again, I’m not really into ethnic music. I’m not particularly thrilled about their conventional singing accompanied by traditional folk instruments. Out of all their albums you’ve recommended, is there any containing mostly throat singing? P.S. To avoid trashing this forum with off-topic stuff, I’ve sent you a message. Check you Private Messenger |
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Fassbinder
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: May 27 2006 Location: My world Status: Offline Points: 3497 |
Posted: January 07 2007 at 18:17 | |
I'm not too fond of those performances on YouTube. But, then again, I have a real concert to compare with.
It seems that there's a kind of a slight misunderstanding here. The Tuvan singing (and Huun-Huur-Tu aren't an exception) is, mostly, a blend of "normal" and throat singing. It's not the case that they sing some songs only conventionally and some songs only by a throat. There are very few numbers which are plain throat-singing exercises (wordless, as a rule; only sounds) on Huun-Huur-Tu's albums. If you want to listen to these exercises mostly, 60 Horses in my Herd and The Orphan's Lament contain more such exercises than If I'd been Born an Eagle and Where Young Grass Grows.
Thus, from both sides, their first two albums are more recommended to be heard in first turn.
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ViolinCyndee
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: September 29 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 420 |
Posted: January 07 2007 at 21:12 | |
Amazing! |
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http://cdbaby.com/cd/cyndeeleerule
www.cyndeeleerule.com |
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