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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Topic: Review Pet Peeves Posted: January 09 2007 at 19:14 |
Was thinking of doing a poll on this subject. I've been visiting this site for not quite a year yet. I find it very useful to assist in exploring a new to me band. It's even led to some new discoveries that I probably wouldn't have found out about otherwise. Amazed at some of the detail people can go into about an album sometimes. Here's three things that bug me. Would like to hear any others that I haven't thought of. 1. Bad rounding. I'd like to think that fans of prog are more intelligent than the average person. A .5 does not round down it rounds up. Basic math. If you want give an album extra credit but not a whole extra star, don't go above a .4. No, .45 doesn't count. That also rounds up. 2. Trashing an album when you don't like the band or their sub-genre anyway. Why waste your time? It seems like inevitably these types are just trying to show off how clever of a music critic they are. I don't think anyone's really impressed other than you with yourself. It's certainly useful if you're a fan and you explain why you don't like the particular direction they took with this release or that. 3. The phrase "in my opinion" or "IMO". Unless you psychically channel other peoples opinions, it's really redundant. If you are guilty of any of these, please stop.
Edited by Slartibartfast - January 09 2007 at 19:15
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Witchwoodhermit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 19:34 |
In my opinion, your silly thread rates a 3.5.
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 20:18 |
Witchwoodhermit wrote:
In my opinion, your silly thread rates a 3.5. [IMG>height=17 alt=Smile src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> | Yeah and I bet you're not even going to round it up properly are you?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 20:34 |
Witchwoodhermit wrote:
In my opinion, your silly thread rates a 3.5. [IMG>height=17 alt=Smile src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> | Sorry, but IMHO that was pretty friggin' funny! E
Edited by E-Dub - January 09 2007 at 20:34
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Sasquamo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 828
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 20:36 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
1. Bad rounding. I'd like to think that fans of prog are more intelligent than the average person. A .5 does not round down it rounds up. Basic math. If you want give an album extra credit but not a whole extra star, don't go above a .4. No, .45 doesn't count. That also rounds up.
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I don't think people, for example, call an album 4.5 but give it 5 stars because of bad math, they just feel it's closer to a 5 than a 4.
Edited by Sasquamo - January 09 2007 at 20:37
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
Status: Offline
Points: 28427
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 20:50 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
1. Bad rounding. I'd like to think that fans of prog are more intelligent than the average person. A .5 does not round down it rounds up. Basic math. If you want give an album extra credit but not a whole extra star, don't go above a .4. No, .45 doesn't count. That also rounds up.
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Couldn't agree more, it's dumb and annoying, an album must be rated as a whole piece of music.
Slartibartfast wrote:
2. Trashing an album when you don't like the band or their sub-genre anyway. Why waste your time? It seems like inevitably these types are just trying to show off how clever of a music critic they are. I don't think anyone's really impressed other than you with yourself. It's certainly useful if you're a fan and you explain why you don't like the particular direction they took with this release or that.
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True, if you dislike a sub genre it is best to leave it alone since the purpose of reviews is to recommend and unbiasedly analyze an album, and if a reader looks at a band's reviews means that he is interested in the sub genre therefore your review is useless to him.
Slartibartfast wrote:
3. The phrase "in my opinion" or "IMO". Unless you psychically channel other peoples opinions, it's really redundant.
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It's my opinion because I said it, duh.
Slartibartfast wrote:
If you are guilty of any of these, please stop.
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100% innocent! I'd like to add the phrase "What can I say that hasn't already been said" to that list. There's even a thread about it somewhere....
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 20:53 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 22:22 |
Hmm, thought of a fourth - I see a repeating theme that tracks on an album must be "cohesive" for the album to be good. Oddly enough, sometimes there can be cohesion by the set being completely uncohesive. Variety rules!
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 22:33 |
Proper rounding rarely has anything do do with it. If I like an album more than a 4 but less than a 5, I'll give it a 4.5, but why would I round it up to a perfect score if I clearly don't think it is perfect? I generally round up though except on 4.5s, which I always round down. But the same applies to a 2.5. If I have to give it either a 2 or a 3, I'll give it what I'm more comfortable giving it without taking into account rounding. People should read the review and know that I really think the album is worth a 2.5 no matter what I actually gave it as a star rating.
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 23:45 |
I usually do round up, but not at the ends. I am not going to an album 5 stars, unless it is a five star album. I am also not going to give it one, unless it only merits one.
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Witchwoodhermit
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 871
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 00:38 |
Funny how people see things. I always understand a .5 as meaning one half. Therefore it's always seen as a rounding up. I'm not being critical, it's just interesting how people view things at different angles.
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Here I'm shadowed by a dragon fig tree's fan ringed by ants and musing over man.
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 00:51 |
BTW: 4.45 rounds down as 4.00 or rounds up to 4.5 never should it be rounded up to 5.00, that would be a violation of the rounding regulations as described by the board of Roundingisation Of Numbers. The use of halves in reviews is a good indication of the truest value for the rating. 3.00 stars means a value between 2.50 and 3.49, where 3.50 means a value between 3.25 and 3.74. But given the actual rating being 3.00 stars or 4.00 stars it signals where the actual rating lies. So the true value is probable round the +0.25 or -0.25 of the actual rating. You can downrate with an half, or uprate with an half to signal how the rounded given rating must be interpreted.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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laplace
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 06 2005
Location: popupControl();
Status: Offline
Points: 7606
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 01:10 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Hmm, thought of a fourth - I see a repeating theme that tracks on an album must be "cohesive" for the album to be good. Oddly enough, sometimes there can be cohesion by the set being completely uncohesive. Variety rules! |
on the other hand, we shouldn't be encouraging the bands who ignore transitions and make their music as stilted and discontinuous as possible just to be avant-garde. the world only needs so much fantomas, hardscore and millard mulch. a composer can bring in a variety of elements but a good composer can justify their inclusion..
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 03:55 |
For me one of the real strengths of the site is the diversity of the reviews. The many different approaches, styles, etc. are what makes this site unique.
On one of the specific comments, I am actually keen that people occasionally review bands and genres they don't like. It makes them think about why they don't like them, and may even help them to find things they do like in them. Such reviews also offer a different perspective, giving a better overall picture of the album.
Now if anyone else starts their review "What can I say about this album which has not already been said...", "I don't have much to add to the other reviews...", I won't be held responsible for my actions!
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 06:21 |
On the rounding issue: I think it would be best to introduce half stars
into the system, to avoid people rounding wrong, so to speak.
Edited by Philéas - January 10 2007 at 06:21
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billbuckner
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 07 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 433
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 06:28 |
^^^ Agreed with the half-stars.
My pet peeve is when people use a review to trash an unrelated band, as in, "This album is likely too hard and complex for Genesis fans".
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bhikkhu
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 06 2006
Location: A² Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5109
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 12:59 |
billbuckner wrote:
^^^Agreed with the half-stars.My pet peeve is when people use a review to trash an unrelated band, as in, "This album is likely too hard and complex for Genesis fans".
| I'm glad I didn't see that. I hate generalizations. This Genesis fan also likes Zeuhl, Zappa, and is just discovering Riverside.
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: January 10 2007 at 14:13 |
I thought rounding up meant gaining weight.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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Zitro
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 11 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1321
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 23:10 |
I think it makes less sense when people rate each track and find the average. I think I once saw animals with 4 stars because the opener and closer (1 minute long each) got 3 stars while the main songs got 5 stars. The average rating considerig time would end up being like 4.9 instead.
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: January 23 2007 at 20:35 |
I don't think you can supress people to write reviews of bands which genre is not liked by the reviewer, as long as he/she makes arguments to back it up.. and it's quite obvious that if a person rates 4 stars to an album while posting 4.5 star rating, the person believes it's closer to a 4 than a 5, therefore the "real" rating would be 4.49 or 4.45. Some of us also tend to avoid math Another pet peeve is when you put the thread in the wrong section
Edited by Chus - January 23 2007 at 20:38
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Jesus Gabriel
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