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Raff 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24391
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 Posted: January 22 2007 at 11:44 |
 cmidkiff wrote:
I can see maybe moving the poll, but why did you take away the ability to vote? I wanted to see what the opinion of the PA community was quantified in votes. After all its still a poll, maybe you should move it back.
As far as 'Prog Opposite' thats just sarcasm 
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Oops.. it wasn't me who took the ability away. Polls are not allowed in that section, so I'll just have to move it back to where it was. Edit: back to normal... 
Edited by Ghost Rider - January 22 2007 at 11:47
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kazansky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 24 2006
Location: Indonesia
Status: Offline
Points: 5085
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 11:48 |
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right ! now i can vote...the second option for me
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The devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us.
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Chicapah
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8238
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 12:01 |
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I think these categories are essential to invite the casual "surfer" to investigate true progressive music. I see no reason to narrow the scope of this site. Anyone who investigates further due to Led Zep or the Doors will figure out the main objective of progarchives soon enough and either stick around or move on.
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"Literature is well enough, as a time-passer, and for the improvement and general elevation and purification of mankind, but it has no practical value" - Mark Twain
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 12:17 |
kazansky wrote:
i dont' think that the top 100 list is useless as well. about the proto prog and prog-related, i think the way they are now is good enough for me. after all this site is about the ultimate discography of prog, so everything about prog could go on the front page
just my opinion... |
But with that line of reasoning all rock would be included as its releated to Prog. As far as the lists go, it gives an idea of what is rated good here in relation to Prog rock, so those who may of never heard of an artist might check them out using the list. Those other catagories are simply not prog and you could check them out on an ordinary rock site. If you include them, then why not include "Prog Opposite" as a genre? Its also related, as it would be the opposite of prog.
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cmidkiff
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 12:19 |
Chicapah wrote:
I think these categories are essential to invite the casual "surfer" to investigate true progressive music. I see no reason to narrow the scope of this site. Anyone who investigates further due to Led Zep or the Doors will figure out the main objective of progarchives soon enough and either stick around or move on. |
Maybe we could lure them in with Madonna, too.
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cmidkiff
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 12:21 |
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cmidkiff
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Philéas
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6419
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 12:50 |
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Reference only!
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el böthy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 27 2005
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 6336
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 12:51 |
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I would let proto the way it´s now, bands like the Beatles and Procol Harum opened many doors for what was to come (I would take Deep Purple and specially the Doors out, but that´s another story). But prog related should not be a part of the 100 list of album, as here it´s the prog albums we are taking in consideration...but to be honest, apart of havin every day more and more non prog acts in this site, this doesnt bothers me much
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"You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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CrazyDiamond
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 466
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 13:14 |
^ me too. I will let the Proto Prog section where it is, 'cause my point of view is that band like Procol Harum or the Nice are far prog than some modern band listed under Art or Symphonic prog. Before Prog Archives I've always thought that Procol Harum or The Nice, for example, were THE bands who make prog music  , and not a PROTO PROG music.
edit* ops the nice are no more under proto prog section.. eh eh.. but have they been once or I'm just drunk? 
Edited by CrazyDiamond - January 22 2007 at 13:17
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Proglodita
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 23 2006
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 192
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 13:30 |
Maybe you’re interested in a newbie’s thought, although I have been visiting this page for a couple of years or something.
I agree to remove the prog related and proto prog from the home page because, for example, these pasts weeks I’ve been seeing a lot of The Doors, since it seems to be just added (am I wrong?). Is this the aim of the site? The Doors deserves a space, but like a related item, not a main one.
If you are reading a top 100 of prog you don’t expect to see Made in Japan.
And finally, I’d prefer not to see Iron Maiden never again on the site, understanding (well, I can’t, but I have to) that deserves a space too.
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P
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Trickster F.
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2006
Location: Belize
Status: Offline
Points: 5308
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 13:35 |
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Reference only, I'd say.
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sig
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 13:35 |
^ You see that with new bands that are still fairly popular. It will die down and then we will be back to normal on Close to The Edge, Wish You were Here and Selling England by the Pound reviews dominate the front page again. 
All of the genres here are artificial. Not one these are meant to be strict guidelines to anything. It is a way for some people who feel the need to categorize everything. The best suggestion I have heard, and I promote it freely, is using multiple descriptive tags on albums not bands.
Of course by doing so we run the risk of having nothing to talk about anymore. |
 "What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 14:05 |
Garion81 wrote:
^ You see that with new bands that are still fairly popular. It will die down and then we will be back to normal on Close to The Edge, Wish You were Here and Selling England by the Pound reviews dominate the front page again.[IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
All of the genres here are artificial. Not one these are meant to be strict guidelines to anything. It is a way for some people who feel the need to categorize everything. The best suggestion I have heard, and I promote it freely, is using multiple descriptive tags on albums not bands.
Of course by doing so we run the risk of having nothing to talk about anymore. [IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> |
Genres are more useful then just randomly placing things into catagories. If I'm looking for new music I won't waste my time checking out bands that are in the genre of "Rap". There are too many albums available to be checking everything out, and I'll save a good deal of time focusing on a genre that I like. I agree that the clasification emphesis should be on albums and not artists as its not impposible for an artist to change their style.
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cmidkiff
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theBox
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 29 2005
Location: Greece
Status: Offline
Points: 427
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 14:18 |
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Reference only guys!!! I mean, come on...who the hell wants to come
here seeking obscure underground bands only to find the front page
dominated by Iron Maiden, the Doors or Queen reviews????
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 14:43 |
cmidkiff wrote:
Garion81 wrote:
^ You see that with new bands that are still fairly popular. It will die down and then we will be back to normal on Close to The Edge, Wish You were Here and Selling England by the Pound reviews dominate the front page again.[IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle>
All of the genres here are artificial. Not one these are meant to be strict guidelines to anything. It is a way for some people who feel the need to categorize everything. The best suggestion I have heard, and I promote it freely, is using multiple descriptive tags on albums not bands.
Of course by doing so we run the risk of having nothing to talk about anymore. [IMG]height=17 alt=Wink src="http://www.progarchives.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" width=17 align=absMiddle> |
Genres are more useful then just randomly placing things into catagories. If I'm looking for new music I won't waste my time checking out bands that are in the genre of "Rap". There are too many albums available to be checking everything out, and I'll save a good deal of time focusing on a genre that I like.
I agree that the clasification emphesis should be on albums and not artists as its not impposible for an artist to change their style. |
So are saying if you came across an album by Frogg Cafe that was tagged Jazz-Rock, Fusion, Zappa influenced, Violin, Horns, Vocals and a Helmet of Gnats CD that was tagged Jazz-Rock, Fusion, Return to Forever influenced, Mahivshinu Influenced, instrumental .
Are you saying that is less descriptive than simply Jazz-Rock Fusion for both?
And if you find rap albums here or Hip Hop and R&B as well because they all employ the talking vocal style we should blow this place up.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 15:00 |
Proglodita wrote:
Maybe you’re interested in a newbie’s thought, although I have been visiting this page for a couple of years or something.
I agree to remove the prog related and proto prog from the home page because, for example, these pasts weeks I’ve been seeing a lot of The Doors, since it seems to be just added (am I wrong?). Is this the aim of the site? The Doors deserves a space, but like a related item, not a main one.
If you are reading a top 100 of prog you don’t expect to see Made in Japan.
And finally, I’d prefer not to see Iron Maiden never again on the site, understanding (well, I can’t, but I have to) that deserves a space too. |
The Doors were only just added. There's always a flood of reviews when a well known band is added, but they soon settle down to a trickle.
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cmidkiff
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 208
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 15:07 |
So are saying if you came across an album by Frogg Cafe that was tagged Jazz-Rock, Fusion, Zappa influenced, Violin, Horns, Vocals and a Helmet of Gnats CD that was tagged Jazz-Rock, Fusion, Return to Forever influenced, Mahivshinu Influenced, instrumental . Are you saying that is less descriptive than simply Jazz-Rock Fusion for both?
No
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cmidkiff
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Eetu Pellonpaa
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 17 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 4828
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 15:09 |
Proglodita wrote:
If you are reading a top 100 of prog you don’t expect to see Made in Japan. |
Thats a good point. Altering the top100 list either by removing the "prog" refrence from it or removing proto/related artists out of the list would be a great move. Couldn't there be f.ex. another toplist for proto&related!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 15:18 |
I see as a contradiction to include a band in a mainly rating and reviewing Prog site and don't allow to rate them.
Leave it like this.
Iván
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ozzy_tom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 15 2006
Location: China/Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 754
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Posted: January 22 2007 at 15:20 |
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Keep them the way they are! I think that such a great bands like Procol Harum, early Deep Purple, Vanilla Fudge, The Doors, The Gods, Iron Butterfly, Touch had a big influence in prog-rock. (Anyway who replaced band "Salamander" to this genre? As I remember it was listed as an art rock band before and it was a good place for them. Besides they recorded their only album in 1971 so how it can be listed as proto-prog?!).
Anyway I think that name "proto-prog" should be change into "psychedelic rock" 'cause such a music was known under this name in these times...
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Proto and Prog Related
