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Marcos 
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 Topic: What does "epic" song exactly mean?
Posted: March 22 2007 at 21:28 |
We usually use this word, but I don't know what it exactly means  . Tell me your opinion, please.
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www.postmortemweb.com.ar
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BroSpence
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 21:49 |
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I believe "epic" to mean any song that is about 8 minutes or longer. Generally, has some kind of major tension and release involved.
Think of it as a journey of aural delight.
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moebius
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 22:03 |
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For me it's a cheesy song that makes you want to ride white horses through battlefields in slow-motion mode.
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el böthy
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 22:12 |
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erally we use it to talk about really long songs... but for me the real meaning of epic is Iron Maiden jajajaja
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"You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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asimplemistake
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 22:49 |
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I'd agree with the long song idea, most of the time telling a story, with a buildup and release or something similar. Songs like Symphony X's "The Odyssey" are true epics in my definition. Also stuff like Opeth's songs (especially more recently) are epics because they normally have a heavier beginning but then drop down in dynamics for softer middle sections but then buildup again and finish it off.
I don't know of a true definition of epic but I'm sure theres an official one out there.
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T.Rox
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Posted: March 22 2007 at 23:50 |
From Wikipedia…
The epic is a broadly defined genre of poetry, and one of the major forms of narrative literature. It retells in a continuous narrative the life and works of a heroic or mythological person or group of persons. In the West, the Iliad, Odyssey and Nibelungenlied; and in the East, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Shahnama and Epic of King Gesar are often cited as examples of the epic genre. The composition of epic poetry, or of long poems in general, has become uncommon in the Western world since the early 20th century. The meaning of the term epic, however, has evolved to refer to prose works, films, and similar works which are characterized by great length, multiple settings, large numbers of characters, or long span of time involved. As a result of this change in the use of the word, many prose works of the past may be called "epics" which were not composed or originally understood as such.
…now apply music to the poetry (lyrics) and you get the epic song!
Works for me 
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"Without prog, life would be a mistake."
...with apologies to Friedrich Nietzsche
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The Letter M
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 00:21 |
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34412&KW=
That might help a bit!
-Marc.
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I know what I like and I like what I know. I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose free will. If I die tomorrow, I`d be alright because I believe that after we`re gone, the spirit carries on.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 02:01 |
 T.Rox wrote:
From Wikipedia…
The epic is a broadly defined genre of poetry, and one of the major forms of narrative literature. It retells in a continuous narrative the life and works of a heroic or mythological person or group of persons. In the West, the Iliad, Odyssey and Nibelungenlied; and in the East, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Shahnama and Epic of King Gesar are often cited as examples of the epic genre. The composition of epic poetry, or of long poems in general, has become uncommon in the Western world since the early 20th century. The meaning of the term epic, however, has evolved to refer to prose works, films, and similar works which are characterized by great length, multiple settings, large numbers of characters, or long span of time involved. As a result of this change in the use of the word, many prose works of the past may be called "epics" which were not composed or originally understood as such.
…now apply music to the poetry (lyrics) and you get the epic song!
Works for me |
I agree, EPIC has no relation with the lenght necesarilly, normally this is an idea that comes from such movies as The Ten Commandments or Ben Hur, which were called EPICS because they contained heroic , Biblical or Mythologycal narrations, but due to the fact that this movies narrated long stories were also 3 or 4 hours , so the name EPIC was identified with the lenght exclusively.
IMO Fountain of Salmacis or Can-Utility and the Coasrliners as 100% Epics despie their lenght because of the main theme (The story of Hermaphroditus and King Knute).
Iván
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The Whistler
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 02:05 |
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So then...Man on the Sliver Mountain is an epic! Awesome. I've heard all I need to hear.
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"There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson
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Sean Trane
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 06:05 |
moebius wrote:
For me it's a cheesy song that makes you want to ride white horses through battlefields in slow-motion mode. |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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eckhart
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 07:51 |
Actually Stargazer by Rainbow would be an excellent example of an epic. Also Kashmir by Zeppelin. Tim
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Snow Dog
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 08:20 |
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For me an Epis is a 18 min plus song, could be less maybe 14 -17 mins too. It has to take me on some kind of musical journey though and explore different pathways on route.
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proglil49
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 08:32 |
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To me, when the word is used in music, it means song that have a couple of differents parts and in which the lyrics are all based on one general theme that connects the parts of the song. That's my interpretation.
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I want to be an astronaut
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Snow Dog
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 08:36 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
T.Rox wrote:
From Wikipedia…
The epic is a broadly defined genre of poetry, and one of the major forms of narrative literature. It retells in a continuous narrative the life and works of a heroic or mythological person or group of persons. In the West, the Iliad, Odyssey and Nibelungenlied; and in the East, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Shahnama and Epic of King Gesar are often cited as examples of the epic genre. The composition of epic poetry, or of long poems in general, has become uncommon in the Western world since the early 20th century. The meaning of the term epic, however, has evolved to refer to prose works, films, and similar works which are characterized by great length, multiple settings, large numbers of characters, or long span of time involved. As a result of this change in the use of the word, many prose works of the past may be called "epics" which were not composed or originally understood as such.
…now apply music to the poetry (lyrics) and you get the epic song!
Works for me |
I agree, EPIC has no relation with the lenght necesarilly, normally this is an idea that comes from such movies as The Ten Commandments or Ben Hur, which were called EPICS because they contained heroic , Biblical or Mythologycal narrations, but due to the fact that this movies narrated long stories were also 3 or 4 hours , so the name EPIC was identified with the lenght exclusively.
IMO Fountain of Salmacis or Can-Utility and the Coasrliners as 100% Epics despie their lenght because of the main theme (The story of Hermaphroditus and King Knute).
Iván |
I disagree, in music...Epic must take into account song length. But, hey, I guess that depends on how long a song is that you normally listen too.
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micky
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 09:02 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
T.Rox wrote:
From Wikipedia…
The epic is a broadly defined genre of poetry, and one of the major forms of narrative literature. It retells in a continuous narrative the life and works of a heroic or mythological person or group of persons. In the West, the Iliad, Odyssey and Nibelungenlied; and in the East, the Epic of Gilgamesh, Mahabharata, Ramayana, Shahnama and Epic of King Gesar are often cited as examples of the epic genre. The composition of epic poetry, or of long poems in general, has become uncommon in the Western world since the early 20th century. The meaning of the term epic, however, has evolved to refer to prose works, films, and similar works which are characterized by great length, multiple settings, large numbers of characters, or long span of time involved. As a result of this change in the use of the word, many prose works of the past may be called "epics" which were not composed or originally understood as such.
…now apply music to the poetry (lyrics) and you get the epic song!
Works for me
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I agree, EPIC has no relation with the lenght necesarilly, normally this is an idea that comes from such movies as The Ten Commandments or Ben Hur, which were called EPICS because they contained heroic , Biblical or Mythologycal narrations, but due to the fact that this movies narrated long stories were also 3 or 4 hours , so the name EPIC was identified with the lenght exclusively.
IMO Fountain of Salmacis or Can-Utility and the Coasrliners as 100% Epics despie their lenght because of the main theme (The story of Hermaphroditus and King Knute).
Iván |
I disagree, in music...Epic must take into account song length. But, hey, I guess that depends on how long a song is that you normally listen too. |
I think you both are right... epic should have length in way.. but length itself isn't anything if you aren't saying anything. If you can say it in a shorter time.. like Genesis.. jesus.. who wants to hear them twidle around on their instruments for 20 damn minutes  it is sill epic in nature
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Marcos
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 09:35 |
In poetry and in general literature, epic compositions tells about a hero, and his adventures. But I understood "epic" means a long song (maybe 15 minutes or more) for prog-rockers.
For me, we have to mix both definitions.
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sleeper
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 09:58 |
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I think that to be an epic a song has to be fairly long, say more than 10 minutes (though not always, the previously mentioned Fountain Of Salmacis being a good example), but a long song isnt always going to be an epic. Take the Tangents last album, the song In Earnest I would consider an epic, but not the longer title track, A Place In The Queue.
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Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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jfleischh
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 09:59 |
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I don't understand why people keep putting time limits on what constitutes an 'epic'. It's totally a subjective question. Alright, maybe if a song is thirty seconds long, we can agree that it is not an epic, but as others have said, I would consider Can-Utility and the Coastliners to be an epic. Also, there are twenty minute plus jam sessions that I would not consider an epic because there is no story being told with a beginning, middle, and end.
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yarstruly
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 10:08 |
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It has long been my understanding that, in prog, an "epic" is what would have been a song long enough to fill one side of an LP (approaching 18 minutes or more) and a "mini-epic" is in the 8-12 minute range (give or take a min or 2)....there are those songs in between those time ranges that are kind of a grey area such as "Awaken" by Yes (I usually think of those as epics though, because they usually get longer when played live)
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kingofbizzare
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Posted: March 23 2007 at 10:45 |
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For me, the two best examples of epic are A Night At The Opera by Blind Guardian and MDK by Magma. Epic is one of those things you can't define, you just know it when you hear it.
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What does "epic" song exactly mean?
