Prog Timeline

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ Thanks! Could you name some of these early tech/shred metal bands/albums? I agree that the "core" timelines need to be adjusted ... Neo prog begins a bit too early for example.

Edited by Certif1ed - April 15 2007 at 03:07

Need to verify, by revisiting the music, but I found this article - which is interesting, because I was going to mention UFO, primarily because of Schenker - who was also in the Scorps with UJ Roth.

Edited by Certif1ed - April 15 2007 at 05:03

Certif1ed wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ Thanks! Could you name some of these early tech/shred metal bands/albums? I agree that the "core" timelines need to be adjusted ... Neo prog begins a bit too early for example. The more I think about what "Technical" actually means, the further back it goes;   I think it's probably rooted in (early) Deep Purple, Colosseum II and Uriah Heep - but there's also a Led Zeppelin (and hence Yardbirds/Bluesbreakers) link, as Rush (later) indisputably brought technique to the forefront - so "Proto-prog metal" would fit these bands.   The technical approach progressed through bands like The Scorpions and arguably Focus (when Focus played heavy, it was very heavy, and very technically oriented), with Budgie worth consideration. It's quite hard to see how Krautrock fits in, despite the heavy moments, as nothing I've heard from this period is particularly technically-oriented - although Necronomicon's "Tips Zum Selbstmord" is very interesting, formally, and Eloy later developed their music in a more metal vein.   Of course, King Crimson are a constant, throughout their numerous changes, in terms of technique and heavy, riff-oriented music.   This covers 1969-1973.   Also indisputable is the root in "Glam" rock - Queen and Bowie providing the increasing technical slant. I'm currently investigating this period in greater depth, looking at bands like Man and Nazareth, and even the Sweet, in order to find the links - but more importantly, development of technique in heavy bands (AFAIK, the phrase "metal" wasn't really used until the late 1970s to describe the "second wave", but "heavy" has been in use since the late 1960s). Again, there's nothing in the Krautrock scene that jumps out to me as being technically outstanding, in relation to metal.   This covers 1973-1975.   Fairly obviously, Judas Priest dominate in terms of technique in the next stage - albeit rather clumsily at first - "Exciter" is the first piece of music in which I've heard the thrash (up and down picking) technique used, and it's extremely important in the development of technical metal. Rush, obviously fit in here, and it shouldn't be overlooked that Ritchie Blackmore brought a temporary "classical" approach to Rainbow.    This covers 1976-1978.   Raven's debut and follow-up, Rush (again) and Ozzy's new band (featuring ex-Heep Lee Kerslake and ex-Rainbow Bob Daisley, although, allegedly uncredited on Ozzy's 2nd album). Yup, that's right - no mention of Sabbath, whose influence on all things metal is a given, but Ozzy's band cited as an important influence. Well, that's thanks to Randy Rhoades, who used the thrash technique used by Priest on "Exciter" on "I Don't Know", also used more advanced classical techniques than Ritchie Blackmore, and, as far as I can tell, introduced the "shredding" style to metal - I'm still looking for earlier examples.   This period also includes Van Halen and Iron Maiden, whose foundational contributions are legendary.   So now I'm up to 1980, and I'll have to revisit, as I've run out of time today... any comments or glaring omissions?

^ How so?

^ but not all tech metal is necessarily prog. The distinction is very difficult and also quite subjective ...

By "Nu Prog" do you mean "Post Prog"? That's the term I'm hearing a lot, if not reading it so much. I haven't heard anyon use "new prog" as a genre term yet.

And is "Modern Prog" an attempt at giving SB, TFK and the like their own genre? If so, I applaud it heartily, even if the name is a tad vague.

@Cert: Doesn't Zeppelin's approach to riffing (on all instruments) from their 1976 album "Presence" fit well inside this discussion? It was especially on the Knebworth 1979 live performance from the DVD where I noticed a really strong connection with was to become of metal in the 80s ("thrash" is the name if I'm not wrong). There are two or three moments in "Achilles' Last Stand" when the guitar stops its "narrative" tempo and the bass & drums put together an extremely agressive and syncopated riff (the guitar joins at some point if I'm not wrong). That's something I have yet to hear in any other stuff from the 70s, it is only with Metallica that I've found it again. What do you say?

^ of course ... that's also why I placed prog metal on the opposite side of the timeline than prog rock. Technically Jazz-Fusion also deserves its own area, and probably Krautrock/Avant/RIO/Zeuhl too.

I would concur that Zep's musical focus was on expression through blues rock rather than technique as a centerpiece, and whatever influence on technical playing they had peaked by about 1972. andu's point about 'Achille's Last Stand' is valid, but by '76 the real techies were in full swing and had begun to leave Page in the dust.

One of the key junctures was the first two Ozzy albums, as Certif1ed has noted. Randy Rhodes' rhythmic attack is deeply felt throughout this school and though Iomi, Schenker, Roth and others had influence, none had the impact that Rhodes would turn out to have on those who followed.

^ I know that chart - it's very nice and detailed. But for my timeline I explicitly want to keep things simple ...