Is Faust more Rio/ Avantgarde than Krautrock?

Their IV album does have a song called Krautrock on it.  That album is closer to Can and others, but they do have some avantgarde qualities (they actually toured with Henry Cow for awhile).  They are perhaps the most aggressive Kraut band (maybe, haven't heard every single one of them)

Cheesecakemouse wrote: Just listening to their first album, makes me thing that Faust have more in common with Captain Beefheart than with Can.  I think the only reason Faust is listed under Krautrock is because they're german, if they were not from Germany, without a doubt they would be in the Rio/ Avantgarde section. Infact the only thing that made them have an association with Krautrock, apart from the German nationality was their song Krautrock. If you ask me they sould be under the Rio/Avant section.

Before I heard IV I never would have though of them as Krautrock. Before that album there songs are pirmarily avant, and I would say moreso than a good number of bands that we have included inthe avant prog genre.

I think that they also have quite a reputation for being avant. Ask someone about The Faust Tapes and see how they describe it.

Cheesecakemouse wrote: Just listening to their first album, makes me thing that Faust have more in common with Captain Beefheart than with Can.  I think the only reason Faust is listed under Krautrock is because they're german, if they were not from Germany, without a doubt they would be in the Rio/ Avantgarde section. Infact the only thing that made them have an association with Krautrock, apart from the German nationality was their song Krautrock. If you ask me they sould be under the Rio/Avant section.

no way in hell they should be in RiO....

Krautrock is a different kind of sub-genre.  It's not a purely  musical grouping as much as it can be viewed as  a hybrid of a socio-historical movement with strong musical similairites.   It is a natural grouping..  and it's one of several here.

ahhh.. I figured you would have asked 'what about Triumvirat'   Same answer though...

though German... their  influences were purely English.  Thus they are not Krautrock..


Edited by micky - May 04 2007 at 20:31

Atomic_Rooster wrote: the same thing can be said for several Canterbury bands

exactly ... as I said before Krautrock is not the only sub here that is not a purely musical grouping.  Again.. they are a natural.. and historic grouping that people know and recognize and the site can, has, and will recognize them.   As a simple example...  take some cat that gets into Soft Machine at this site... where will he ..or she will  go next..  you better believe it.. Caravan.  Does it matter that they don't sound exactly alike..  or might  be in different purely musical subgrouping if done that way... nope.. it really doesn't matter a damn bit.  Listeners of one group.. will 'know'  the other... though differently musically.. they belong together.  There is no way around that. 

micky wrote: Atomic_Rooster wrote: the same thing can be said for several Canterbury bands exactly ... as I said before Krautrock is not the only sub here that is not a purely musical grouping.  Again.. they are a natural.. and historic grouping that people know and recognize and the site can, has, and will recognize them.   As a simple example...  take some cat that gets into Soft Machine at this site... where will he ..or she will  go next..  you better believe it.. Caravan.  Does it matter that they don't sound exactly alike..  or might  be in different purely musical subgrouping if done that way... nope.. it really doesn't matter a damn bit.  Listeners of one group.. will 'know'  the other... though differently musically.. they belong together.  There is no way around that.

But don't you think it would mean tht fans of Rio/Avant might overlook Faust because they arn't impressed with, for example Can, and then think that thats what all those bands listed under Kraut sound like?

micky wrote: ahhh.. I figured you would have asked 'what about Triumvirat'   Same answer though... though German... their  influences were purely English.  Thus they are not Krautrock..

...and Tangerine Dream and Kraftwerk?

I definitely consider Faust krautrock, for much the same reasons that micky said. They were part of an experimental movement in German music in the early seventies that broke with Englilsh traditions. I also consider early Tangerine Dream, Kraftwerk and Klaus Schulze as Krautrock, but I understand why they are placed under progressive electronic. Kind of makes me wish we could classify bands under multiple sub-genres, but that would probably just be chaotic.

micky wrote: multiple sub-genere listings,  would be a nice solution..  though it would be a major restructuring of the site and a shakeup for the collabs as well.  Would destroy the notions of genre teams...or at least their power base here as the sole voices of what is and is not applicable in a sub.  The groups would again belong to the site.. not as property of any particular genre team.