Autograf - Autograf 1 - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

Rivertree

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17573

Topic: Autograf - Autograf 1
Posted: May 15 2007 at 16:06

new tracklist for Autograf 1 / Àâòîãðàô 1980-82 and line-up

let's say goodbye to cryptic titles Big%20smile

it looks like this are problems with fonts/character sets Question

the same with some album titles

1. Fasten Seat Belts (instrumental) (3:18)
2. The Rainstorm (6:32)
3. 2000 Years (6:54)
4. A Trail Of Days (4:29)
5. Ireland, Ulster (4:05)
6. Yesterday (4:00)
7. Day And Night (5:28)
8. Monologue (4:38)
9. Martian Chronicles, Pt I (8:57)
10. Martian Chronicles, Pt II – The Return (3:55)
11. Blues 'Caprice' (4:26)
12. An Old Ballad (6:46)
13. The Ship (6:14)

Total Time: 69:42

1-5,11 - recorded in 1980
7-9, 13 - recorded in 1981
6, 10, 12 - recorded in 1982

Line-up/Musicians

- Alexander Sitkovetsky / guitars, vocals
- Leonid Gutkin / bass
- Leonid Makarevitch / keyboards
- Sergey Brutyan / vocals
- Viktor Mikhalin / drums (6-10, 12, 13)
- Viktor Yakushenko / drums (1-5, 11)
- Kris Kelmi / keyboards (1-5, 11)

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 15 2007 at 17:19

Well, cryptic titles of Avtograf... I spoke about this several times. The question is -- whether to delete them? or, rather, to right them as they are in Russian. I shan't do this, because I know it's dangerous -- I have spoilt some pages with Polish diacritics already. It is known, however, that it is possible to display Cyrillic letters -- just look at the Aquarium discography, added by Ansen the Miracle.

Rivertree

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17573

Posted: May 15 2007 at 18:34

It depends on the specified character set for displaying text informations

you can use special characters like german ä ö ü or cyrillic without problems
if the html code includes this entry:
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

html pages in PA have another entry
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />

I think this causes the problems and it would be necessary to ask the webmasters
if there is a chance for changing this ...

Joolz

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1377

Posted: May 16 2007 at 03:42

^^^^

But only some people have the problems Confused

... I don't seem to have any problems with accents or diacritics etc

I put the diacritic version of the track one title into Babel Fish ... Russian to English

Ïðèñòåãíèòå Ðåìíè Áåçîïàñíîñòè = Fasten The belts Of the safety .... which is pretty close

I then did the reverse .... English to Russian

Fasten The belts Of the safety = Прикрепите поясы безопасности

They are quite different, and the second one looks like the kind of Russian I recognize .... no diacritics at all .... so what is this? Sorry for being a bit of a dumbo here .....

--------

As a temporary measure, until this whole issue is finally sorted, I have entered the English translation alongside the Russian

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 16 2007 at 06:45

Прикрепите поясы безопасности is indeed Fasten the belts of the safety, quite literally. Of course, the right English phrase for this is Fasten seat belts.

The problem is not the diacritic signs themselves. Some of the diacritic signs are recognised by the system. But there are some other sighs, doesn't matter whether they contain diacritic signs or they don't, which get coded by the system. So far I (personally) had those problems with some Polish diacritics and with Cyrillic letters.

Rivertree

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17573

Posted: May 16 2007 at 10:26

Joolz wrote:

I put the diacritic version of the track one title into Babel Fish ... Russian to English

Babel Fish is something new for me. But it works fine. We can convert all the problematic cyrillic text if we are using the way you are explaining.

Autograf 1 / Àâòîãðàô 1980-82 is converted to
Autograf 1/autograph 1980-82 - perfect!

So all problems with cyrillic chars can be corrected. Clap

Ïðèñòåãíèòå Ðåìíè Áåçîïàñíîñòè
this cryptic text must be copied from a website which doesn't use UTF-8 encoding
for displaying cyrillic chars correctly.
I think in Russia f.e. were other fonts used so the problems may not occure there and to the computer user the same text looks like that
Прикрепите поясы безопасности
(we have to ask Prog-jester)

Edited by Rivertree - May 16 2007 at 10:43

Joolz

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 24 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1377

Posted: May 16 2007 at 11:44

Rivertree wrote:

Babel Fish is something new for me. But it works fine. We can convert all the problematic cyrillic text if we are using the way you are explaining.

Autograf 1 / Àâòîãðàô 1980-82 is converted to
Autograf 1/autograph 1980-82 - perfect!

So all problems with cyrillic chars can be corrected. Clap

Be VERY careful with Babel Fish though ... it works reasonably well for short phrases like these, but gets progressively worse for longer text.

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 16 2007 at 14:07

Still, there's a question: do we really need those titles in Cyrillic alphabet? Aren't their transliteration into the Latin alphabet enough? The Russian speakers (readers, in this case) are quite few in the forum. Personally, I can live easily without titles in Russian (I mean, in Cyrillic alphabet). Being transliterated, they remain quite legible for any speaker of Russian.

Rivertree

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17573

Posted: May 16 2007 at 18:24

Fassbinder wrote:

Still, there's a question: do we really need those titles in Cyrillic alphabet? Aren't their transliteration into the Latin alphabet enough? The Russian speakers (readers, in this case) are quite few in the forum. Personally, I can live easily without titles in Russian (I mean, in Cyrillic alphabet). Being transliterated, they remain quite legible for any speaker of Russian.

Transliteration into the Latin alphabet - is it something like that?

Kamenniy Kray
1. Gorod (4:28)
2. O, Moy Mal'chik (4:28)
3. Ja Ljublju (5:06)
4. Strannik (5:32)
5. Kazjonniy Demon (4:43)
6. Kolokol (4:26)
7. Master (5:24)
8. Kamenniy Kray (4:26)
9. Amur (bonus track) (5.01)
10. Mir V Sebe (bonus track) (5.20)

I can principally agree, Eugene, but I remember some debates about the correct notation of brazillian names a.s.o.
The policy is to offer the original expressions, isn't it ?
But with Cyriilic we should make an exception because it is very difficult to handle (but don't know if there is existing a reliable tool for this translation).

Joolz wrote:

Be VERY careful with Babel Fish though ... it works reasonably well for short phrases like these, but gets progressively worse for longer text.

Promised, Julian - what ever will be done in this case we should get the help of someone who is familiar with Cyrillic or the transliteration.

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 16 2007 at 19:37

Rivertree wrote:

Joolz wrote:

Be VERY careful with Babel Fish though ... it works reasonably well for short phrases like these, but gets progressively worse for longer text.

Promised, Julian - what ever will be done in this case we should get the help of someone who is familiar with Cyrillic or the transliteration.

Well, both Uwe and Julian:

First of all, yes, this is what I mean -- a transliteration, with a possibility to add the English translation in brackets.

Of course, in principle it might be fine to mantain the original language and alphabet, but it seems to cause some serious problems. And, remember, there are some albums in Hebrew here in PA -- can you imagine them to be displayed also in letters of the Hebrew alphabet?

And I still wonder how The Miracle managed to type the Aquarium titles in both Cyrillic and Latin alphabets, quite miracuously (pun intended).

As for the someone who is familiar with Cyrillic -- well, you have a certain F. in the Errors & Omission Team. He is quite familiar with Russian...

Eugene

Rivertree

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17573

Posted: May 17 2007 at 06:39

Fassbinder wrote:

And I still wonder how The Miracle managed to type the Aquarium titles in both Cyrillic and Latin alphabets, quite miracuously (pun intended).

Please make a test, Eugene
go to this site http://www.google.ru/advanced_search?hl=ru

and copy some cyrillic words from there.
go back to this thread and insert what you've copied into a message field.

What is displayed?

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 17 2007 at 07:46

Дата

Показывать страницы, изменённые в течение

< name=as_qdr>< value=all ed>любого времени< value=m3>последних 3 месяцев< value=m6>последних 6 месяцев< value=y>за последний год

Упоминание

Показывать результаты, содержащие эти слова

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 17 2007 at 07:50

What the point of the test is, Uwe?

By the way, "Fasten seat belts" is "Пристегните привязные ремни" (or simply "Пристегните ремни") rather than "Прикрепите поясы безопасности".

Rivertree

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17573

Posted: May 17 2007 at 08:51

Fassbinder wrote:

And I still wonder how The Miracle managed to type the Aquarium titles in both Cyrillic and Latin alphabets, quite miracuously (pun intended).

Maybe I don't really understand why you are wondering? Ouch

But what The Miracle managed is to copy the cyriilic tile of the album from a website and to add some typed letters in latin.

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 17 2007 at 11:25

I mean, it is not difficult to type them (or copy them). I wonder how they are still legible.

I remember how I tried to change the title of an Asia album, called smth. like Live in Moscow, but with the name of the city written in Russian -- МОСКВА (all letters are in upper case), as it appears on the album cover. I typed it (or, maybe, I added those letter from the Character Map -- the way I usually use to add diacriticised letters), but they got encoded into some unlegible signs after the editing, like those in the Avtograf discography.

Rivertree

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions

Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17573

Posted: May 17 2007 at 12:06

that's really crazy - I made some tests but couldn't force this phenomenon ...

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 17 2007 at 13:44

Look at this please: http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=4342.

I see Ìîñêâà: Live Russia(Live, 1990) .

What do you see?

And I only replaced "Mockba" with "Москва".

Edited by Fassbinder - May 17 2007 at 14:16

Fassbinder View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: May 27 2006
Location: My world
Status: Offline
Points: 3497

Posted: May 17 2007 at 14:11

1. Autograf

Now, compare please the main page of Autograf: http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=2335 with some unlegible signs in the album titles ( 25 ëåò ñïóñòÿ. Þáèëåéíûé êîíöåðò / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert(Live, 2005) , for example)

with this: 25 лет спустя. Юбилейный концерт / 25 Years After. Jubilee Concert (copied from the editing area).

Even if one doesn't understand Russian (s)he can easily tell the normal (though unfamiliar) alphaber from some encoded signs.

2. Aquarium

But if you'll go to the Aquarium main page, you'll see quite legible titles: День Серебра [Day Of Silver] (Studio Album, 1984) , for example. It doesn't differ from what appears in the editing area.

That's why I wondered how did The Miracle manage to insert Cyrillic letters without their fatal encoding after the updating.

3. ÄLGARNAS TRÄDGÅRD

To crown it all, look at this:

That's how a certain group is displayed in the PA pages: ÄLGARNAS TRÄDGÅRD.

And that's how I see it in the editing area: Дlgarnas Trдdgеrd.

(A single example of the hundreds of similar encoding).

Edited by Fassbinder - May 17 2007 at 14:18

Rivertree