Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Blogs
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Live Prog-rock is Dying
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedLive Prog-rock is Dying

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 11>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 15:22
Originally posted by Les_Lifeson Les_Lifeson wrote:

Thanks guys, glad to be here. You'll no doubt eventually get sick of me though...I say what I mean, and usually, mean what I say....so enough of that, on with the show....

I really think that the internet is a double edge sword in that it does provide bands with heaps of outlets for them to flog their music, their image, their voice. And at the same time, it opens doors for them and can lead to huge audiences hearing about them, and hearing what they have to offer. This is a fantastic medium for such things - but the edge of the sword comes about when people download - or put another way - steal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not about to stand up on my soapbox and point my finger at any of you here - or anyone - I admit it. I download music. And like others have said above, if its good, I will go out and buy a legit copy for my collection. This is a great thing to do - because it shows that it is not good enough to just have a copy of the music on the ipod, but in fact, it is important to have the original disc - to give support to the artists. But more and more this is becomming an exception to the rule. Most people download it, listen to it, throw it on the ipod, and then go and download something else, repeat. I would daresay the closest these songs ever come to be on disc is when they get burned and passed around to friends, and so on and so on.

Some would argue that this in itself is one of the main reasons why the music industry is in strife - and I couldn't argue against it.

The main problem is that as an artist gets known - ie, passed around from friend to friend, the only good thing that can happen from that point is - that hopefully they get good tour support. Album sales have suffered, so radio tours, tv slots don't exist - or are on a shoestring budget, because no money is coming in. It is very rare that record labels are willing to throw millions of dollars at bands anymore for publicity - simply because they know that the returns aren't there.

Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s - and up until the very late 90s, the writing was on the wall - but I don't think anyone could have predicted just how destructive a simple little file extension was going to be to the music industry - .mp3

Now days, of course, the term .mp3 is a household name. Take stock of other file extension names and ask yourself - how many are household names? Sure, techies and the like can rattle off more than we'd like to know - but just how many does grampa jones know of down the street? I would almost guarantee if you said, hey gramps - ever heard of an .mp3 - he would nod his head.

So, where does that leave us? It puts artists in a situation where on one hand they need the internet for the publicity, they they authorize,  but on the other hand they don't need their music pawned off like it was dirt - and was free for anyone to come along and take a scoop, or worse, fill their wheel-barrow up. And that is exactly what is happening.

I'm not saying that the internet is bad - its a fabulous tool - but like anything good it can be abused. The problem is how can bands use the net and not fall prey to illegal downloading of their music? I honestly don't think that answer exists yet. Sueing fans isn't the answer - but it may help curb it to some extent. But if you are honestly one of those fans who downloads your music, listens, then decides if he likes it or not. If he doesn't - does he delete it? Or does he have an obligation whether he likes it or not to go out and buy it?

That is a can of worms in itself. All this relates back to whether or not Prog-rock is dying - because the prog that we love is suffering from this, although, as stated, I don't believe it is dying. It's just not as healthy as it once was.

What part can we play?  How can we listen to the music, before we buy it? And should we be allowed to do just that? You can test drive a car before you buy it. If you don't like it - no sweat - move on and test drive until you find one you like. It's a good system - one with we all agree upon.

But you can't order a pizza, eat it, and then say, no, I don't like this, make me another - and not pay for it. It just doesn't work that way. I think we need to understand how important the music is that we choose to listen to - regardless of how we get it. And if you get it from an internet site where paying isn't an option,  perhaps you need to rethink just what it is that went into making that product. More and more often kids think that music "grows on trees". It's just there to be picked, ripe or not, whenever they choose. This "on demand" system that we live in has a hefty price - and one of those is our artists have paid with their creativity being sold for nothing. I honeslty think that this is a mentality that we need to teach kids in school. It's not enough for them to be told that illegal downloading is wrong - we have to teach it to them. Show them the consequences - on both sides of the coin. From the consumers perspective, where ticket, and merchandise prices are going through the roof to compensate, and from the artists perspective - where dreams are shattered, and dues are paid almost in blood - for a few dollars more.

Yeah, I can rant.....

 
But seriously - what can we do? What should we do? And more to the point - how do we do it?


OH MY GOD, I did not knew you were able to read my thoughts! Internet downloading has been essential for me to know bands and subsequently be able to buy their stuff, but most people i know think i am an idiot because i buy cds and just don't download it. Maybe, as always, education is the only way out. Here, take the internet (you deserve it).



Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

The record industry (like the film industry) suffers, in my point of view, because they keep shelling out crap on the public, and while many people accept it as 'music' those of us who are wiser to it don't always live in an area where good music is plentiful. I know that I live nowhere near any frecord store that keeps classic Genesis material in stock, and to me that is a shame, but at the same time, folks don't want to pay close to twenty bucks (sometimes more) for something that they may or may not like, especially with all the horrible sub-par music that is being released. The internet is only a small part of what is causing these big industries to fail, in my honest opinion. The rest of it is their own doing.

 
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about this now, moving on.........
 
/edit for content - darqDean


i think we have the same problem dude, and that sucks. I can experience that every day: whenever i turn the radio on i feel like killing the freaking DJ, stores always have the same sh*tty cds and where there are good ones they are expensive Ouch


Back to Top
Les_Lifeson View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: March 24 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aus
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 13:51
I know what you are thinking -
 
Didn't you say up above that you never wanted the music we love - Prog - to be considered mainstream. I still stand by that!
I never want to find that it is and has succumbed to all the trappings that the music industry has to offer.
That would be a bad thing in more ways than I can think of - and believe me - I can think of alot.
But getting recognized is a far cry from being mainstream. Pehaps one leads to the other - I think that could be argued. But at the same time, if doesn't have to.
Recognition purely opens a band up to a wider audience. What the band does with that fame is up to them. If they turn into poseurs - well then - that's what they want. But it's not what I want. And I daresay if that were to happen to one of our prog rock gems that we love - the message would be loud and clear. They wouldn't do it for long.
 
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
-Thomas Jefferson
Back to Top
Les_Lifeson View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: March 24 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aus
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 13:38

My intention was never to inflame or cause an argument to break out amongst the other board members. My intention was merely to draw comparisons to why you think that Prog-rock is dying. Like all diseases that kill, they have an origin in something.

So, we will move on. As many of you will eventually come to understand, I am very opinionated - but I love my prog. Provided it's got the thing that makes good music good - the x factor - to coin a phrase.

So much stuff is coming out these days - which is why I don't think prog is dead. Take a look at insidemusic - SPV - the label that puts out alot of the stuff we listen to - their catalogue is chock-a-block full of prog. That's not all they publish - but one could easily get that impression due to the large number of bands under their roof.

I am sick to death of ridiculous lyrics, and 25 minute songs. I love a good epic, but come on! More often than not it's just an excuse to "prattle on" lyrically and musically. Sure these guys can play - but do we really need to hear them playing their "virtuoso" phrases, mixes, and and who knows what else for far too long? Back in the day, when Genesis and Kansas, Styx etc were writing songs - sure they wrote long songs - but they always sounded like songs! I don't need to hear how good Mike Portnoy is on the drums if it takes away from the song. I don't need to hear John Petrucci solo over and over again as if I didn't know how good he was.

Rush once fell into that trap - and they are imho one of the best bands out there - ever - to wear the moniker - prog rock. They wrote some amazing songs - some were 20 mins and more, but Rush evolved. Probably my favourite band of all time, they learned to write songs. Sure, many people would argue that many of the songs that they wrote after Moving Pictures were less and less prog rock - perhaps. But they learned to write songs that were able to turn an idea into something real, something you could understand, something you might relate to - and do it all, without compromising any of their genius, inside 5 minutes - or less. To me that is real musicianship. Being able to paint a canvas with less colors and still having it turn out to be fantastic.
 
This is where I feel alot of modern prog has failed. It rarely learned how to say alot with the whole "less is more" philosophy.
Now don't get me wrong - I love prog - I love it to bits - I just am sick of hearing the same stuff coming from alot of these bands over and over again.
Not to pick on Dream Theater - but their latest album Systematic Chaos is a mess. I think they started to lose the plot after SFAM. That was a fantastic album in of itself - and one of my favourite cds. It just works.
 
I think the point I am trying to make is that we need to hear more songs withing the songs we are hearing - if that makes sense. Noodling around and playing for the sake of playing is so old. Time to move on. Write songs, condense the thoughts into less words and modes and concentrate your talents.
 
This will achieve fantastic results, imo. Not only will it open the bands up to radio play - it will in turn open the bands up to videos - and we all know how videos can be used as a great media tool to promote albums and songs.
I am not saying - sell out. Don't read that in my post. I am saying sell smart.
Wouldn't it be nice to hear that your favourite prog band was being nominated for something? Sure, sure - grammy's, shammy's - I know what you are thinking. But it would be nice, to turn it on and hear Dream Theater's name, or Spock's Beard, or The Flower Kings, etc, etc, etc. I would love to be able to say to them - yeah, that's my kinda music!
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.
-Thomas Jefferson
Back to Top
JLocke View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 12:01

The record industry (like the film industry) suffers, in my point of view, because they keep shelling out crap on the public, and while many people accept it as 'music' those of us who are wiser to it don't always live in an area where good music is plentiful. I know that I live nowhere near any frecord store that keeps classic Genesis material in stock, and to me that is a shame, but at the same time, folks don't want to pay close to twenty bucks (sometimes more) for something that they may or may not like, especially with all the horrible sub-par music that is being released. The internet is only a small part of what is causing these big industries to fail, in my honest opinion. The rest of it is their own doing.

 
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about this now, moving on.........
 
/edit for content - darqDean


Edited by darqDean - March 25 2008 at 12:04
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 11:48
^^^ Interesting observations Les. We will not allow this discussion to spiral out of control into a bi-partisan argument on the issue of (illegal) downloading since (if you search the forum) these always end badly, however we cannot simply brush this under the carpet and hope it will go away (or magically resolve itself), so (as a Moderator) I will permit this discussion some breathing space.
 
GENERAL WARNING TO ALL : Please do not discuss illegal downloading, or whether you believe it is right or wrong. Accept that it exists and it is illegal under the laws of the majority of countries within this world of ours. Also remember that it is site policy NOT to promote the discussion of illegal activities.
 
The points raised in the above thread are to do with how this current untenable system can be fixed, about what changes can be made to the system so artists still have the incentive to create music and the Labels have the incentive to pay for it to be recorded and distributed and not about the perceived rights and wrongs of illegal downloading. 
What?
Back to Top
Les_Lifeson View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: March 24 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aus
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2008 at 11:20

Thanks guys, glad to be here. You'll no doubt eventually get sick of me though...I say what I mean, and usually, mean what I say....so enough of that, on with the show....

I really think that the internet is a double edge sword in that it does provide bands with heaps of outlets for them to flog their music, their image, their voice. And at the same time, it opens doors for them and can lead to huge audiences hearing about them, and hearing what they have to offer. This is a fantastic medium for such things - but the edge of the sword comes about when people download - or put another way - steal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not about to stand up on my soapbox and point my finger at any of you here - or anyone - I admit it. I download music. And like others have said above, if its good, I will go out and buy a legit copy for my collection. This is a great thing to do - because it shows that it is not good enough to just have a copy of the music on the ipod, but in fact, it is important to have the original disc - to give support to the artists. But more and more this is becomming an exception to the rule. Most people download it, listen to it, throw it on the ipod, and then go and download something else, repeat. I would daresay the closest these songs ever come to be on disc is when they get burned and passed around to friends, and so on and so on.

Some would argue that this in itself is one of the main reasons why the music industry is in strife - and I couldn't argue against it.

The main problem is that as an artist gets known - ie, passed around from friend to friend, the only good thing that can happen from that point is - that hopefully they get good tour support. Album sales have suffered, so radio tours, tv slots don't exist - or are on a shoestring budget, because no money is coming in. It is very rare that record labels are willing to throw millions of dollars at bands anymore for publicity - simply because they know that the returns aren't there.

Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s - and up until the very late 90s, the writing was on the wall - but I don't think anyone could have predicted just how destructive a simple little file extension was going to be to the music industry - .mp3

Now days, of course, the term .mp3 is a household name. Take stock of other file extension names and ask yourself - how many are household names? Sure, techies and the like can rattle off more than we'd like to know - but just how many does grampa jones know of down the street? I would almost guarantee if you said, hey gramps - ever heard of an .mp3 - he would nod his head.

So, where does that leave us? It puts artists in a situation where on one hand they need the internet for the publicity, they they authorize,  but on the other hand they don't need their music pawned off like it was dirt - and was free for anyone to come along and take a scoop, or worse, fill their wheel-barrow up. And that is exactly what is happening.

I'm not saying that the internet is bad - its a fabulous tool - but like anything good it can be abused. The problem is how can bands use the net and not fall prey to illegal downloading of their music? I honestly don't think that answer exists yet. Sueing fans isn't the answer - but it may help curb it to some extent. But if you are honestly one of those fans who downloads your music, listens, then decides if he likes it or not. If he doesn't - does he delete it? Or does he have an obligation whether he likes it or not to go out and buy it?

That is a can of worms in itself. All this relates back to whether or not Prog-rock is dying - because the prog that we love is suffering from this, although, as stated, I don't believe it is dying. It's just not as healthy as it once was.

What part can we play?  How can we listen to the music, before we buy it? And should we be allowed to do just that? You can test drive a car before you buy it. If you don't like it - no sweat - move on and test drive until you find one you like. It's a good system - one with we all agree upon.

But you can't order a pizza, eat it, and then say, no, I don't like this, make me another - and not pay for it. It just doesn't work that way. I think we need to understand how important the music is that we choose to listen to - regardless of how we get it. And if you get it from an internet site where paying isn't an option,  perhaps you need to rethink just what it is that went into making that product. More and more often kids think that music "grows on trees". It's just there to be picked, ripe or not, whenever they choose. This "on demand" system that we live in has a hefty price - and one of those is our artists have paid with their creativity being sold for nothing. I honeslty think that this is a mentality that we need to teach kids in school. It's not enough for them to be told that illegal downloading is wrong - we have to teach it to them. Show them the consequences - on both sides of the coin. From the consumers perspective, where ticket, and merchandise prices are going through the roof to compensate, and from the artists perspective - where dreams are shattered, and dues are paid almost in blood - for a few dollars more.

Yeah, I can rant.....

 
But seriously - what can we do? What should we do? And more to the point - how do we do it?
Back to Top
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 21:38
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Wow, what a first post!
 
Welcome, Les_Lifeson!
 
And I couldn't agree with you more . . .except about the internet being a double-edged sword. I think people of my generation that are more familiar with how all of that stuff works will agree with me that in fact the only people illegally downloading music for the hell of it aren't that interested in the band in the first place. The people who download music from bands that they like are usually doing it to try the band out prior to slamming their money down for a record that they may not even like. Anybody who is going to support the band is going to do it, no matter what. I know I do. Yes, I do download music, but then if I enjoy the work, I go straight to the store or the net and pay for the actuall album itself. Trust me, I am aware of how little the band actually sees, so whenever I have the chance to support a band I like, big act or small, I definately do.
 
Welcome, again!


I could not put it in a better way myself.
Back to Top
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 21:26
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

^ yes, but you've gone off topic again - this isn't a chat room.


Very well, allow me to remake my posts: Spock's Beard got a HUGE quality downfall with its main composer departure, Neal Morse to preach the love of God because of the healing of his son. Because of Neal's departure i think Spock's Beard is half-dead.

Besides that, Neal's music on his solo career is great, and may be considered as the continuation of Spock's Beard continuation, as long as music concerns, but the lyrics are not pleasant to me for a bunch of reasons and, one of them is the incompatibility with my personal beliefs.

Maybe one of the reasons of lesser durability of prog nowadays and its "death" is the "death" of the bands. The offspring of that is usually lower quality bands that can only exist due to their previous success on the previous band. To me the main example of that is Marillion: after fish's departure, neither fish not Marillion where able to reach the same quality that they once had.


Edited by CCVP - March 24 2008 at 21:33
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 32743
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 21:00
I think he means because it's off-topic.  I see that he did.  Edit: instead of quoting my post earlier to end on an on-topic note, there was a much better subsequent post, that due to distraction, I somehow failed to quote, but is very worthy of discussion (and there is an excellent follow-up by the same poster.  Welcome, by the way.  Was responding to your later post, but I have to wait until my brain warms up sufficiently to add anything approaching intelligent and thoughtful.

Originally posted by Les_Lifeson Les_Lifeson wrote:

I'm new on this board, but I've been around on various boards and BBS's for 25 years or more.
 
First off, I take exception to the idea that Prog-rock is dying. I don't think that this could be further from the truth. With today's over saturated radio playing top 40ish crap that is practically unlistenable, I think that the underground in the music scene is as strong today as it has ever been. But underground you say? Why underground? Well that is because no matter how much we enjoy bands like The Flower Kings, and Spock's Beard - they will simply never become mainstream  - or a household name. But we should be thankful for that. it is because of this that they continue to produce the great music that we all love. In all of music, I honeslty can't think of a more scary word than Mainstream. It just makes me shudder.
 
It is very important to get out there and support your local band, and those not so local. It is a sad fact that in today's society, bands in general just don't make much on the sale of their cds. They never made much before, as after the record company's cut, they were lucky to make about .20 cents per cd sold. Now it's even less, because they just aren't selling as many cds as they once did, due almost one hundred percent to the internet.
 
While the internet can provide a band with an incredible amount of publicity, it is a double edge sword - and as long as people continue to download bands without buying their cds - this trend will continue - and eventually get even worse.
 
By driving 25 miles to see a band might seem like a big effort, it really is the least one can do. In the past the farthest I have ever travelled to see a band was over 400kms. While this might be extreme - the alternative is far worse. If bands don't get support when they come to a nearby pub, or arena near or far to you - they remember and usually don't come back to that area.
 
I do think that the underground music scene as mentioned above is alive and kicking quite nicely. Sure, it could be bigger - but do we ever really want to see it as mainstream? Not on your life!
Get out there and go see a live band today. Do your part and help keep the music alive.




Edited by Logan - March 25 2008 at 12:33
Just a fanboy passin' through.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:59
^ yes, but you've gone off topic again - this isn't a chat room.
What?
Back to Top
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:55
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Stern%20Smile


don't got it why the look on yer face. Hell, lyrics can suck and the album can still be a masterpiece. Take Close to the edge as an example: the lyrics just make no freaking sense but the song and the album are masterpieces.

Besides, religious beliefs can't be judged man.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:42
Stern%20Smile
What?
Back to Top
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:38
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

I wasn't gonna say anything, but I agree about Morse. I mean, I myself am of the Christian faith, but hell, once we have heard how much yuo love Jesus, we kinda want to hear about y'know . . . something a little more lyrically interesting . . .


i am a catholic, and got uber pissed off when i red the lyrics of sola scriptura, dont agree about his view about the tabernacle and think his one album is way to centered in saying that the man hates God . But the music is good though.
Back to Top
JLocke View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:31
I wasn't gonna say anything, but I agree about Morse. I mean, I myself am of the Christian faith, but hell, once we have heard how much yuo love Jesus, we kinda want to hear about y'know . . . something a little more lyrically interesting . . .
Back to Top
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:26
Originally posted by Les_Lifeson Les_Lifeson wrote:

I'm new on this board, but I've been around on various boards and BBS's for 25 years or more.
 
First off, I take exception to the idea that Prog-rock is dying. I don't think that this could be further from the truth. With today's over saturated radio playing top 40ish crap that is practically unlistenable, I think that the underground in the music scene is as strong today as it has ever been. But underground you say? Why underground? Well that is because no matter how much we enjoy bands like The Flower Kings, and Spock's Beard - they will simply never become mainstream  - or a household name. But we should be thankful for that. it is because of this that they continue to produce the great music that we all love. In all of music, I honeslty can't think of a more scary word than Mainstream. It just makes me shudder.
 
It is very important to get out there and support your local band, and those not so local. It is a sad fact that in today's society, bands in general just don't make much on the sale of their cds. They never made much before, as after the record company's cut, they were lucky to make about .20 cents per cd sold. Now it's even less, because they just aren't selling as many cds as they once did, due almost one hundred percent to the internet.
 
While the internet can provide a band with an incredible amount of publicity, it is a double edge sword - and as long as people continue to download bands without buying their cds - this trend will continue - and eventually get even worse.
 
By driving 25 miles to see a band might seem like a big effort, it really is the least one can do. In the past the farthest I have ever travelled to see a band was over 400kms. While this might be extreme - the alternative is far worse. If bands don't get support when they come to a nearby pub, or arena near or far to you - they remember and usually don't come back to that area.
 
I do think that the underground music scene as mentioned above is alive and kicking quite nicely. Sure, it could be bigger - but do we ever really want to see it as mainstream? Not on your life!
Get out there and go see a live band today. Do your part and help keep the music alive.


whoa! I completely agree! just don't think that spock's beard is still alive since Neal Morse left to preach. Neal's solo career have great music, but all that religious stuff just get on my nerves from time to time: no need to say the same thing over and over again
Back to Top
JLocke View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:17
Wow, what a first post!
 
Welcome, Les_Lifeson!
 
And I couldn't agree with you more . . .except about the internet being a double-edged sword. I think people of my generation that are more familiar with how all of that stuff works will agree with me that in fact the only people illegally downloading music for the hell of it aren't that interested in the band in the first place. The people who download music from bands that they like are usually doing it to try the band out prior to slamming their money down for a record that they may not even like. Anybody who is going to support the band is going to do it, no matter what. I know I do. Yes, I do download music, but then if I enjoy the work, I go straight to the store or the net and pay for the actuall album itself. Trsut me, I am aware of how little the band actually sees, so whenever I have the chance to support a band I like, big act or small, I definately do.
 
Welcome, again!


Edited by p0mt3 - March 24 2008 at 20:20
Back to Top
Les_Lifeson View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie
Avatar

Joined: March 24 2008
Location: Melbourne, Aus
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 20:03
I'm new on this board, but I've been around on various boards and BBS's for 25 years or more.
 
First off, I take exception to the idea that Prog-rock is dying. I don't think that this could be further from the truth. With today's over saturated radio playing top 40ish crap that is practically unlistenable, I think that the underground in the music scene is as strong today as it has ever been. But underground you say? Why underground? Well that is because no matter how much we enjoy bands like The Flower Kings, and Spock's Beard - they will simply never become mainstream  - or a household name. But we should be thankful for that. it is because of this that they continue to produce the great music that we all love. In all of music, I honeslty can't think of a more scary word than Mainstream. It just makes me shudder.
 
It is very important to get out there and support your local band, and those not so local. It is a sad fact that in today's society, bands in general just don't make much on the sale of their cds. They never made much before, as after the record company's cut, they were lucky to make about .20 cents per cd sold. Now it's even less, because they just aren't selling as many cds as they once did, due almost one hundred percent to the internet.
 
While the internet can provide a band with an incredible amount of publicity, it is a double edge sword - and as long as people continue to download bands without buying their cds - this trend will continue - and eventually get even worse.
 
By driving 25 miles to see a band might seem like a big effort, it really is the least one can do. In the past the farthest I have ever travelled to see a band was over 400kms. While this might be extreme - the alternative is far worse. If bands don't get support when they come to a nearby pub, or arena near or far to you - they remember and usually don't come back to that area.
 
I do think that the underground music scene as mentioned above is alive and kicking quite nicely. Sure, it could be bigger - but do we ever really want to see it as mainstream? Not on your life!
Get out there and go see a live band today. Do your part and help keep the music alive.
Back to Top
CCVP View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 19:35
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

LOL

 
Serioisely, though, I can see why the guy got a little pissed. People don't take too kindly to threads being hijaked around these parts. If a thread happens to gradually shift topics, that's one thing, but I suggest the "just for fun" section from now on if you wanna post funny pictures. Hell, I'll even come and contribute some of my own! Just . . . y'know, not in the middle of a completely different discussion, lol.


Originally posted by Atkingani Atkingani wrote:

OK, let's keep this BLOG "On TOPIC"... The Just For Fun forum exists especially for the subject it was created.
 
Thanks!


suggestions  will be considered


Edited by CCVP - March 24 2008 at 19:37
Back to Top
Atkingani View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: October 21 2005
Location: Terra Brasilis
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 19:35
OK, let's keep this BLOG "On TOPIC"... The Just For Fun forum exists especially for the subject it was created.
 
Thanks!
Guigo

~~~~~~
Back to Top
JLocke View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2008 at 16:03
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

The next ''Dream Theater"? I think I'll pass . . . Tongue
Irrelevant. Confused
 
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

 
Okay, so what you are saying is that the fans of indie prog acts of today need to do more to support their favorite group. Well, I can't speak for anyone else here, but if someone REALLY cares about a band to begin with, they are gonna pay for the CD, not download it, and they are going to go to gigs when teh bands comes their way.
Catch 22 - how do you get people to hear your music in the first place? How did you get to hear of your favourite modern band? How did they become "famous" enough for you to hear their music? Were you at their early gigs before they were signed? Did you follow them when they were 3rd on the bill in a dingy club, played for 30 minutes and didn't get paid?
 
No. You heard about them in the music press or through the internet, then got curious and bought their CD. But for them to get that far, some other people did all those other things.
 
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

 
If someone who is listening to my band's music doesn't like us enough to go the extra mile, and has to be told to do so by somebody on a forum, then I don't think I want their support anyway.
Does your band suddenly appear on the scene fully-formed and with a substantial following? No, the only artists that magically appear with an instant following are the manufactured boy-bands and Pop Idol wannabies - you don't - you have to build-up a following by self promotion and hard work - contrary to popular belief it's not all record company hype, payola and PR magic. Without that the A&R people won't even know you exist - you can send out a million demo CDs and you'll get a million rejects because unless your 'product' is the most amazing thing since the digital watch they only sign bands they have heard of.
 
As I said, the Internet will only get you so far - you still have to put in the hard work to get noticed. All those "feel-good" stories you read of artists being discovered on MySpace are PR hype and yet another form of industry manufacturing - I'll wager most of those artists had signed contracts before their MySpace page was produced and all the other 100,000 bands on MySpace are shooting at thin air.
 
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

 
Real fans are what keep bands going, and no matter how few or how many of them there may be, they are the ones that matter. I understand about the whole making money thing, but frankly if the artists wanted to make money they should have signed to a major record deal and stuck their fingers up at artistic expression. I think anyone who plays original music knows what they are in for before they even begin the touring phase of their band's career.
Have you even the slightest idea of how difficult it is to get signed to any record label, let alone a major? The only reason bands self-release albums, (ie indie release, it's basically the same thing - the majority of indie labels are one-act wonders originally set up to promote one band), is because they cannot get a major deal - it has nothing to do with artistic expression or integrity - that is just a smoke screen.
 
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

Then again, I may be misreading you.
probably Wink
 
Originally posted by p0mt3 p0mt3 wrote:

After all, it's always nice to get money for doing what you love, but if it were me, I would be perfectly content to just make enough to live on so I could keep making music. Anything extra that would ever lead to luxouries would simply be icing on the cake.
It's nothing to do with making money or even earning enough from music to get by, very very few of today's Prog bands earn enough money to live on - Mac from Threshold quit the business last year because he could earn a living from it. Truth is, most bands do it for the love of music.
 
 
We've clearly missunderstood one another, then. My apologies.
 
For the record, my wholw point was that it can be very easy to get signed to a label if you make yourself sound like crap. Have you heard the latest 'hit' singles these days? Of course I know how difficult it is for any GOOD artist to get signed. I don't think we dissagree on that one.
 
My whole point still stands, however: If the fans like the band, they will do the very things you are asking them to do. If they don't like them they won't. Period. Prog rock isn't dying, my friend, it is already dead. It died along with Yes, Genesis and half a dozen others in the wake of the 80s. Progressive acts now all have what you might call 'cult' followings, where the amount of fans aren't nearly as large as the fans of the pop music, but I'm sure even the independant bands are happy with whatever following they have.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 11>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.156 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.