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Eetu Pellonpaa 
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 Topic: Are you Experienced? Jimi Hendrix
Posted: September 30 2007 at 05:36 |
Micky, thanks for your informative and kind reply. This proto prog thing is a tricky one, as it's always about the way how the wideness of scope is seen, and what things are important or not... I personally think that proto genre should have artist that invented buiding blocks of the prog in the 60's, not being actual prog itself. Ofcourse the content and the wideness of the proto genre is administrated by the admins, but I thought to little promote my own personal view of this case. Won't start anykind of sabre dances for it though!  Jimi's music and meaning is not lost even if he wouldn't be listed here.
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Easy Money
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 23:35 |
 paolo.beenees wrote:
Some days ago I started a topic called "Missing Pieces" about artists and bands which had a single prog output in their production.
I think Jimi Hendrix's "Electric Ladyland" should be mentioned amond these "single" jems. That's not a matter of guitar sound (a field where he was an absolute innovator) - and I can well regognize that "Are You Experienced" and "Axis: as bold as love" aren't prog (if not in the sense that they helped rock to take a consistent step forward in its evolution). But "Electric Ladyland" is something different: it expands Jimi's typical psychedelia towards jazz-blues structures and an astounding space rock (just listen to the sequence represented by "1983... (a merman should I turn to be)" and "Moon, turn the tides"... has anybody said Hawkwind???) |
Are you familiar with the CD "Voodoo Soup" released many years after he passed. Along with the usual blues and rock stuff there are some very unique songs on there.
Edited by Easy Money - September 19 2007 at 23:37
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micky
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 18:05 |
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 18:04 |
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micky
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:09 |
paolo.beenees wrote:
Some days ago I started a topic called "Missing
Pieces" about artists and bands which had a single prog output in their
production.
I think Jimi Hendrix's "Electric Ladyland" should be
mentioned amond these "single" jems. That's not a matter of guitar
sound (a field where he was an absolute innovator) - and I can well
regognize that "Are You Experienced" and "Axis: as bold as love" aren't
prog (if not in the sense that they helped rock to take a consistent
step forward in its evolution). But "Electric Ladyland" is something
different: it expands Jimi's typical psychedelia towards jazz-blues
structures and an astounding space rock (just listen to the sequence
represented by "1983... (a merman should I turn to be)" and "Moon, turn
the tides"... has anybody said Hawkwind???) |
I saw that thread Paolo.... and is something I have suggested for the
site... and was rejected of course so we do it on our own with the
genre teams.. which is add bands IF they did a prog album. The is 'YOUR
ULTIMATE PROG ROCK RESOURCE" you know  It works for the obscure... and falls flat for the well known. Want to see Ivan's head explode?... move Styx to symphonic based solely on their early prog albums.
Edited by micky - September 19 2007 at 17:11
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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paolo.beenees
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:03 |
Some days ago I started a topic called "Missing Pieces" about artists and bands which had a single prog output in their production.
I think Jimi Hendrix's "Electric Ladyland" should be mentioned amond these "single" jems. That's not a matter of guitar sound (a field where he was an absolute innovator) - and I can well regognize that "Are You Experienced" and "Axis: as bold as love" aren't prog (if not in the sense that they helped rock to take a consistent step forward in its evolution). But "Electric Ladyland" is something different: it expands Jimi's typical psychedelia towards jazz-blues structures and an astounding space rock (just listen to the sequence represented by "1983... (a merman should I turn to be)" and "Moon, turn the tides"... has anybody said Hawkwind???)
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micky
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 16:57 |
back to your post Eetu
oh goodie.... haven't broken out MY red font since ...god knows when
Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
micky wrote:
Eetu... let's be frank
here.... lets not lose sight of history with the way we have
divided prog into discreet sub-genres here at PA's . WE have
decided there is such a thing as psych prog for example. |
There are records which are both psychedelic and progressive rock
in theire nature, so the way we have decide to label these bands
here doesn't make the fact of their existence our invention, but
the product of the artists which made the records.
and that is what we are supposed to do...hell
that is what we did with RPI.. we create the genres to help
classify these bands for the listeners and prog explorers out there.
However.. what my point was... that may have been lost considering my
mind works much faster than fingers.... is that with the famous, big
name artists... history HAS to be taken into account. We have had
some discussions about trying to be consistant about additions.... and
based purely on his music... sure he might have a case for psych
prog (though I'm not sold on it hahha) but to the
posters here... much like Deep Purple which has been kicked around..
history sees them as something other than prog... regardless of how
many prog songs Hendrix did.. or how many prog albums Deep Purple
did. As far as Proto-Prog.. a NON prog category.. that comes
later in your post....
micky wrote:
Everything in prog has derived from Floyd, King Crimson and the other masters... |
I don't agree with you with this non-precise statement statement. King Crimson were prog already, and Fripp himself has said that he wanted to create music which would sound like Jimi Hendrix playing classical music (I recall this was in Eric Tamm's book).
that is why Fripp is known as a founding member of prog... and Hendrix is not. Fripp did it... fate took Jimi away before he did.
micky wrote:
did Hendrix directly influence them musically. If so, then he should be in, I just don't see it... or hear it. |
To be frank, IMHO you don't hear it.
From the first album 1967 "Are You Experienced?" there are
very interesting tracks ahead of their time in the rock music frame of
reference. Like "Third Stone from The Sun", "I don't Live Today", "Love
or Confusion" + the many details in the playing and arrangements of the
songs. If you listen the Jimi Hendrix "Best of" album having only
"Purple Haze" and "Hey Joe", I understand that the influence to prog
music remains a mystery. I don't know how much you have listened
to this band. Also the following albums "Axis: Bold as Love" continue
the artistic andventures in the psychedelic reference, and teh
following "Electric Ladyland" could be seen as a pure prog album
IMO. So I think he influenced the psychedelic prog and krautrok
bands fundamentally. He didn't probably influence YES and GENESIS, but
so what? They are not the only aspect of progressive rock music, though
they are good bands? 
For what it's worth Eetu.. considering the
standards set for Proto Prog by the admins and owner... Hendrix
probably should be here.... my point is.. I think the standards
have been way too loose. The Doors.. .Jefferson Airplane... great
groups.. who had not a DAMN thing to do with what Emerson Lord and
Fripp were cooked up in the late 60's. As I said in the collab
area.... I don't support him for Proto...but his inclusion makes sense
because the non prog categories are exactly about the dreaded 'if x
then y'. They are not being judged solely on their music.. .but
by other criteria. Degree of progresive elements.. degree of
influnce and blaa blaa blaa
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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micky
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 16:31 |
Easy Money wrote:
Yeah I think a lot of people judge Hendrix by his
more popular stuff and that is not his progressive output. I think if
people dug deeper into his dicography they would be suprised at the
invetivness, originality and deepness of his music. |
oh cut that crap.... who here HASN'T heard every damn one of
Hendrix's albums scores of times over the years. Chalking up
difference in opinion to ignorance is going not going to win you any
fans... and will earn you quite the opposite.
This isn't a kiddie site where Hendrix is thought of only for burning guitars and Purple Haze.
let's ge real here
Edited by micky - September 19 2007 at 16:33
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Money
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 08:46 |
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Yeah I think a lot of people judge Hendrix by his more popular stuff and that is not his progressive output. I think if people dug deeper into his dicography they would be suprised at the invetivness, originality and deepness of his music.
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Eetu Pellonpaa
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Posted: September 19 2007 at 08:06 |
micky wrote:
Eetu... let's be frank here.... lets not lose sight of history with the way we have divided prog into discreet sub-genres here at PA's . WE have decided there is such a thing as psych prog for example. |
There are records which are both psychedelic and progressive rock in theire nature, so the way we have decide to label these bands here doesn't make the fact of their existence our invention, but the product of the artists which made the records.
micky wrote:
Everything in prog has derived from Floyd, King Crimson and the other masters... |
I don't agree with you with this non-precise statement statement. King Crimson were prog already, and Fripp himself has said that he wanted to create music which would sound like Jimi Hendrix playing classical music (I recall this was in Eric Tamm's book).
micky wrote:
did Hendrix directly influence them musically. If so, then he should be in, I just don't see it... or hear it. |
To be frank, IMHO you don't hear it.
From the first album 1967 "Are You Experienced?" there are very interesting tracks ahead of their time in the rock music frame of reference. Like "Third Stone from The Sun", "I don't Live Today", "Love or Confusion" + the many details in the playing and arrangements of the songs. If you listen the Jimi Hendrix "Best of" album having only "Purple Haze" and "Hey Joe", I understand that the influence to prog music remains a mystery. I don't know how much you have listened to this band. Also the following albums "Axis: Bold as Love" continue the artistic andventures in the psychedelic reference, and teh following "Electric Ladyland" could be seen as a pure prog album IMO. So I think he influenced the psychedelic prog and krautrok bands fundamentally. He didn't probably influence YES and GENESIS, but so what? They are not the only aspect of progressive rock music, though they are good bands?
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micky
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 21:10 |
darqdean wrote:
Interesting point Micky.
Hendrix toured with Floyd in 1967 and obviously they heard each
other's music a lot, yet I cannot hear any Hendix influence in Floyd or
vice versa. |
hey... it's all great music... but let's face it damnit. Prog in
it's beginning WAS english... and Hendrix grew up on... and played
American 'roots' music.. though with a highly individualistic manner and in a
highly ampflied manner
The problem is... other additions here.. have left the door open for
him...and should have never (IMO) been opened. Like Jefferson
Airplane.. a HUGE a fan of them as I am.
His guitar playing is a WHOLE other story.. but we don't include people
for instrumental influence.. it's all about the music.
Edited by micky - September 17 2007 at 21:11
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dean
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 21:05 |
Interesting point Micky.
Hendrix toured with Floyd in 1967 and obviously they heard each other's music a lot, yet I cannot hear any Hendix influence in Floyd or vice versa.
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What?
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micky
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 20:41 |
Eetu Pellonpää wrote:
micky wrote:
...if he significantly influenced the development of prog rock.
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From the view point of psychedelic prog and krautrock, it was fundamental IMHO.  |
hmmmm....I'm in the camp that his influence ...undenialby .vast
influence is due to his guitar playing which transcends prog.. . not
his music.
Eetu... let's be frank here.... lets not lose sight of history
with the way we have divided prog into discreet sub-genres here at PA's
. WE have decided there is such a thing as psych prog for
example. Everything in prog has derived from Floyd, King Crimson
and the other masters... did Hendrix directly influence
them musically. If so, then he should be in, I just don't see it... or hear it.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Abstrakt
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 10:20 |
Hendrix Created Blues-rock, and influenced Later Psychedelic/Hard-rock bands, IMO
So, my answer is: NO!
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Eetu Pellonpaa
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Posted: September 17 2007 at 10:18 |
micky wrote:
...if he significantly influenced the development of prog rock.
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From the view point of psychedelic prog and krautrock, it was fundamental IMHO.
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Logan
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Posted: September 15 2007 at 19:10 |
Jimi was "Blend[ing] characteristics of Progressive Rock with mainstream elements
creating a final product that despite not being part of the genre is
evident that are close to Prog" before "Prog" really even existed... sort of in a way (before the movement was recognised). Now that's progressive!  But he's not suitable for Proto-Prog, nor does he really fit the Prog-related definitions. Perhaps there should be a new category for such artists? Like maybe "Not Prog"? or "Not Progressive Rock, but not crap either"? Like his music muchly... Band of Gypsies is my favourite project of his, and I must say that I've always associated him with progressive rock music to an extent even if I don't think he fits this site as it now stands. Cream is more closely related to Prog, imo. Yeah, I always mention that even if it's rather a case of apples and oranges.
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Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: September 15 2007 at 18:41 |
Atavachron wrote:
Hendrix didn't influence Prog, he was influenced by it, but died before he could make a substantial contribution to the fledgling form. In fact, many of the 'prog rock' artists were moving away from the music of Hendrix and others. He didn't influence the majority of prog musicians at the time and didn't have the chance to participate in it. He is neither ProtoProg nor ProgRelated.
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Philéas
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Posted: September 15 2007 at 18:35 |
Atavachron wrote:
Hendrix didn't influence Prog, he was influenced by it, but died before he could make a substantial contribution to the fledgling form. In fact, many of the 'prog rock' artists were moving away from the music of Hendrix and others. He didn't influence the majority of prog musicians at the time and didn't have the chance to participate in it. He is neither ProtoProg nor ProgRelated. |
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Atavachron
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:44 |
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Hendrix didn't influence Prog, he was influenced by it, but died before he could make a substantial contribution to the fledgling form. In fact, many of the 'prog rock' artists were moving away from the music of Hendrix and others. He didn't influence the majority of prog musicians at the time and didn't have the chance to participate in it. He is neither ProtoProg nor ProgRelated.
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Easy Money
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Posted: September 13 2007 at 23:36 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
A lot of you have a very shallow knowledge of what Hendrix was really about and about the amazing prog-rock songs he put out in addition to his more well known blues and pop-hard rock stuff. Hendrix along with Zappa, Fripp, Pink Floyd, Soft Machine, Procol Harum and the Beatles invented prog-rock. One thing Hendrix had over many artists on this site is some very real lyrics. |
This is a very unfair thing to say. If many people here don't think Hendrix is prog, it is because their view of what constitutes prog is not the same as yours. We are talking about art, not hard science, and art is a very subjective thing. Many of the members of this site have an incredibly extensive knowledge of music, so I think that calling their knowledge "shallow" is very untrue, as well as slightly rude. |
OK, from reading these posts some have a good knowledge about Hendrix and some don't, I was referring to the one's that don't.
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Are you Experienced? Jimi Hendrix
