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StyLaZyn 
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Joined: November 22 2005
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 Topic: Pop Elements in Prog is Bad?
Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:08 |
I have noticed that some high ranking albums have pop moments, yet when reading another thread, a poster indicated that this was a bad thing and brought down the quality of the album.
In all honesty, I prefer strong melody to material that is otherwise dissonant and going nowhere. While too much makes an album appear not Prog, I see certain short lived pop elements within songs as interesting and rather strengthening to some material.
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JayDee
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:09 |
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Pop moments in prog materials make it more listenable. I kind of like it when bands sprinkle a dash of pop tunes on some of their somgs. I wouldn't mind.
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coleio
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:10 |
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There can be melodic moments and whatnot, but just don't make a pop song.
This is the sort of discussion I was having with a friend about Rainbow.
I like some of the more complex elements, but then it just runs into rock n roll drivel most of the time.
If you're going to put melody into a prog song at least make it interesting and not standard, mundane pop.
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Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!!
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:11 |
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It depends on the type of pop, but I enjoy that element in music. Pop isn't necessarily a souless, money grubbing genre. There's plenty of intelligent pop with as much merit as any other style of music. Let's not forget that even in their later years The Beatles were still pretty much pop though very clever pop. I'd much rather have prog with some clever pop influence than something like AOR.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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proghairfunk
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Joined: August 18 2006
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:13 |
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Melodies drive songs. They don't necessarily have to be "pop melodies" but I prefer them to be singable, recognizable or at least fun to listen to.
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StyLaZyn
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:15 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
It depends on the type of pop, but I enjoy that element in music. Pop isn't necessarily a souless, money grubbing genre. There's plenty of intelligent pop with as much merit as any other style of music. Let's not forget that even in their later years The Beatles were still pretty much pop though very clever pop. I'd much rather have prog with some clever pop influence than something like AOR. |
I like that. Clever Pop. The Beatles were first excellent song writiers from the Pop world then they really matured and provided some great percursors to Prog. 
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1800iareyay
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2006
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:16 |
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I tend to like both poppy melodies and dissonance. The Beatles, anything involving a member of King's X, Gentle Giant, and a lot others incorporate wonderful melodies that really add to the album. However, I also love KC, Tool, and such bands that tend to shy away from anything resembling a melody. Guess I'm just easy to please
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laplace
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:32 |
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I don't mind the odd pop song on a prog album, but that's usually not what happens - bands tend to shift towards a poppier format altogether, ie King Crimson's Beat, Magma's Merci, that Gentle Giant album which practically made me cry, etc.
I tend to avoid bands with overwhelming pop or AOR influences and a good example of one of these is Spock's Beard, where all the best musical ideas are smothered under mega-production and really predictable hooks. Not to be a wet blanket, but I'd say that any more than trace elements of pop in prog is certainly a bad thing and to me, distasteful and even unartistic.
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FranMuzak
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:41 |
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To add either pop elements or dissonant moments to Prog music, has to being done cleverly as Equality 7-2521 says. I don't have any problems with slightly pop Prog if it's strong and smartly written. Actually i like a good straight pop rock tune when i'm in the mood.
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Minimalist777
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:44 |
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Some prog fans have this attitude of "ohhh a prog band has this pop song on their album thats terrible!" But honestly, if you look at SEBTP, Fragile, Brain Salad Surgery etc. many of the classic prog albums have pop songs on them for a change of pace. I understand that some "prog" bands put TOO much pop into the mix and are little more than AOR, and I dislike that as much as the next prog fan. However I really dont see what the big deal about a pop song or two on an album is, especially if its well crafted and clever.
Edited by Minimalist777 - August 15 2007 at 10:45
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WWOSD?
What Would OliverStoned Do?
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fuxi
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:54 |
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Nothing wrong at all with "pop" tunes. You'll find them on first-rate prog albums by Yes, Genesis, Peter Gabriel, Robert Wyatt, Kevin Ayers, Gong, Caravan, Hatfield and the North, Jethro Tull, Frank Zappa and virtually everyone else I can think of. 10cc's HOW DARE YOU even managed to be pop and prog at the same time - hurrah!
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febus
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 10:59 |
There is nothing wrong with pop in prog as long as it's GOOD!!
Only the ''snob elitists'' are schocked or outraged by pop in prog because the band''''' sold out''!!!!, they say! 
There is nothing wrong for a musician to think of a retirement program for his old days either, no one has to starve  as long i enjoy the music, pop or not pop, that's what counts. there is good pop and bad pop as there is good pizza and bad ones
and who are we to judge and tell a musician what to do?  talking about his musical ''integrity''.. come on!!!
Good post, Stylaztyn
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BaldJean
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Joined: May 28 2005
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 11:20 |
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don't fool yourself, guys. "prog" IS "pop music", however arrogantly we proggers may look down on those who listen to "pop"
Edited by BaldJean - August 15 2007 at 11:22
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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A B Negative
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 11:29 |
I'd rather ask the question "Prog elements in pop is good?"
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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."
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clarke2001
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 11:36 |
BaldJean wrote:
don't fool yourself, guys. "prog" IS "pop music", however arrogantly we proggers may look down on those who listen to "pop"
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I absolutely agree. Prog is probably the most complex (but necessary the most clever) form of pop music.
Edited by clarke2001 - August 15 2007 at 11:37
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mrcozdude
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 11:38 |
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I think owner of a lonely heart
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heyitsthatguy
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Joined: April 17 2006
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 12:19 |
BaldJean wrote:
don't fool yourself, guys. "prog" IS "pop music", however arrogantly we proggers may look down on those who listen to "pop"
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and a giant chasm erupted in the center of the earth, and there was wailing and gnashing of teeth 
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LeInsomniac
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Joined: December 22 2006
Location: Portugal
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 12:32 |
BaldJean wrote:
don't fool yourself, guys. "prog" IS "pop music", however arrogantly we proggers may look down on those who listen to "pop"
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I dont think that what you said should be put that simply, cause it ain't. Youcant honestly consider Mr-Bungle or Univers Zero pop music in that way. Either you are making a generalization or you have to name examples, although I dont disagree of your opinion. Just have to look at Genesis and Yes. But dont compare Yes with Rolling Stones, cause if Yes is pop then The Rolling Stones are prog. If A equals B than B equals A.
Edited by LeInsomniac - August 15 2007 at 12:33
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 Happy Family One Hand Clap, Four Went On But None Came Back
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Tapfret
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 13:56 |
BaldJean wrote:
don't fool yourself, guys. "prog" IS "pop music", however arrogantly we proggers may look down on those who listen to "pop" |
Huh?!?! 
"Pop" is short for popular. Prog is anything but.
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: August 15 2007 at 14:00 |
Prog always has pulled influences from every quarter. When it's "high-brow" like Classical, Folk, World-music or Jazz we all go whoopee! but when it slides down the musical scale towards Pop people complain (and wo betide the muppet who tries to rap in a prog song - though the concept of Jon Anderson rapping to The Ancient raises a smile here in Darq towers). That's not progsnobbishness, that's because proggers know where that path leads - we've seen it before and don't want to see it again. I do not have a problem with some Pop elements in Prog, a simple melody often repeated, a good hook, something memorable you can sing along with, however I do object when it turns into mushy AOR (or Middle of the Road as we use to call it) drivel.
(then again Folk-music could be called music of the day played on instruments of the day - which makes Sleepytime Gorila Museum a Folk band).
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Pop Elements in Prog is Bad?
