WHO WAS THE GUILTY OF GENESIS DECADENCE ?

ivan_2068 wrote: [So it's obvious, Phil wants to use the recent popularity earned with hard work by Peter to sell a couple more albums and Peter doesn't need that. Iván

Ivan, 

Do you really think that Phil needs money or is it a motivation to do anything for him at this point of his carrer?  I am sure the money from Disney alone would suffice anyone for the rest of their lives and probably their childrens life as well.  I don't think any of them are lacking for anything at this point in time. Except maybe Steve Hackett.

How about Tony or Mike.  Outside of Calling all Stations what have they done or tried to do to make money?  Is that because they don't need to?  I think so. I think that more than ever this reponse from Peter or Phil would be  based on desire and not because they need money. Of course a tour and maybe a CD would be profitable it just doesn't majke sense unless they want to do it because they don't need to. This situation would be closer to  the The Eagles Hell Freezes Over tour than anything else. Just my opinion.

The guilty men are Collins,Rutherford and Banks who chose to turn their backs on proper prog music for selling their souls for pop's money with that preposterous little clown Collins the main culprit but abley abetted by the other two.Indeed, have the triumvirate not stated that they were a little embarassed by some of their earlier musical outpourings.

Garion81 wrote:

Do you really think that Phil needs money or is it a motivation to do anything for him at this point of his carrer?  I am sure the money from Disney alone would suffice anyone for the rest of their lives and probably their childrens life as well.  I don't think any of them are lacking for anything at this point in time. Except maybe Steve Hackett.

I don't hink he needs more money, but the question is what he WANTS, . Do you think Mick Jagger or Donald Trump or Don King or  Bill Gates, etc, but they keep working even though they could be resting in their homes. Once you got money, you need more, that's human.

But that's not all the problem. Proghead said it well in one sentence:

Proghead wrote:

Peter has remained a credible artist while Phil has turned into a joke!

Petr Gabriel is a respected artist as Steve Hackett (Whom I doubt needs more money), their last tours were a success, on the other hand Phil Collins's Testify was a disappointment, didn't reached 10% of the expected sales, the tour was cancelled in many places.

Phil has lost credibility since he's working with Disney or even before, many TV programs (South Park, Saturday Night Life, etc) make terrible jokes about him, I'm sure a Genesis reunion will boost his popularity again. that's why he doesn't want to sing, only play drums.

Peter Gabriel or Steve Hackett don't need to play with Genesis again, they have a secure and respected career, Phil Collins is a joke for half of the world.

Iván

Hi Guys

Sweetnighter,

Gabriel and Hackett survived the Punk Movement, always making great and inventive works, records and shows (in gigs, mainly Gabriel).

They didn't sold their soul to bad music and easy money...

Best Greetings

i dont get how pop sensibilities is a good thing

just because it is a favorite band of yours, you dont have to like everything they put out and on top of that, defend it

Aaron

Aaron wrote: i dont get how pop sensibilities is a good thing just because it is a favorite band of yours, you dont have to like everything they put out and on top of that, defend it Aaron

Just because it isnt prog doesnt mean i have to dislike it either.

I wont argue that later genesis holds a candel to the early stuff, it doesnt. I dont even consider it to be the same band after and then there were three. I just happen to like some pop every now and then, i think its better than counrty rock myself

This may be controversial but....

maybe they just got bored with prog rock and wanted to do something else...

I don't see it as a major betrayal or some big crime.

Sure I would love to 10 more albums like Selling England or Trick of the Tail but such is life.

Most of us have moved on from most of the things we did 10 years ago and to go back to them would seem a retrograde step. We've been there, done that and moved on.

I don't think it's fair to say it was solely the pursuit of money either. Sure when you suddenly find yourself getting commercial success with Follow Me and then Turn it on Again the thought surely enters the head that doubling the few hundred grand they brought in might be a nice idea and might just put your children through college and pay off the mortagage on your baronial pile in the leafy home counties. But i would imagine that was not the driving force behind those songs. I feel sure that the impetus was from listening to other stuff, being influence by it, feeling that you're moving with the times, not getting stuck in a rut - for want of a better word 'progressing'

Personally, I think Genesis did some great work up until the Genesis album. After that it was largely workmanlike pop from guys heading into their 40s with nothing left to prove except to the bank manager. But I don't think you can haul them over the coals for that.

I do wonder at Tony Banks though. I do think he just just gave up caring after '83 and just like many of us do at our own jobs I think he 'clocked in' did what was required, 'clocked out' and collected his wages at the end of it all. A shame but it happens to the best of us.

Collins and Rutherford? I give you Disney and Mike and the Mechanics. I'm sure Rutherford at least thought he was doing something worthwhile (even if the rest of the world disagreed) but Collins and Disney - what a cheap shot at the Oscar the child actor in him obviously craves so desperately and also a cheap shot at a monster pay cheque. It's not like he needed either. The guy has no shame and even less artistic integrity. Okay, if you're poor and someone waves a fat cheque at you then 'art' is a luxury you can't afford. But it wasn't like Collins was short of a few quid. I can't see Gabriel ever doing Disney. Way too much class for that. (any he really is bonkers enough to turn down squillions)

In the case of 'decadent' Genesis, all things must pass as George Harrison quoted. Genesis had their 'classic prog' period, it lasted for 7 albums. That's a pretty long run. Enjoy those. And do go back and listen to Duke and Abacab, there are some really good things there, even if they aren't 23 minutes long.