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Topic ClosedJethro Tull is blasphemous!!!

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rambaron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jethro Tull is blasphemous!!!
    Posted: September 19 2007 at 13:21

Hehe, I always like making titles that stir people up, but are somewhat true.

(I don't want to offend anybody, I think I did a good job keeping it neutral, the only thing i'm trying to say is that people in general are stupid)
 
I have actually been wondering recently, why was Black Sabbath was so hated, and still is to some extent by many religious groups for being a bunch of Satanists and having antireligious music?   I am only really familiar with their early “quality” albums that they made and many of them really deal with nothing more than what Neil Morse himself would sing about.  Most often the songs would involve resisting and dueling with the Devil, the only one that is arguably satanic is NIB where Lucifer falls in love with a mortal woman and repents evil becoming good.  In fact before their debut album they where largely a blues band who just happened to stumble upon a new kind of music.

It goes to show how many of us never really listen to the meaning of the lyrics and just assumes everything based on appearance as so many satanic groups (who are just as clueless) started to love them and consider Black Sabbath as their own kind.  The band themselves became so frightened of this they got metal crosses blessed (by their supposed enemies) to protect them from Satan, which they wore everywhere.  Now the thing that really confuses me, people that I know who have always thought Black Sabbath is so sacrilegious have no problems and have even been fans of Jethro Tull.

This stumps me as Jethro Tull is arguably the most sacrilegious band that has ever existed.  So many of their songs and albums have quibbled and mocked organized religion.  Hell that was the main concept for Thick as a Brick and Aqualung and yet these where never considered blasphemous.  Harry Potter “not a big fan myself” on the other hand, a story that evolves around teachings that Jesus Christ himself have preached is so enormously hated.  While Jethro Tull blatantly blasted organized religion on their most popular albums (although I don’t believe he has anything against faith in general just the supposed problems of organized religion).

Any thoughts?



Edited by rambaron - September 19 2007 at 13:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 13:25
You like to rock the boat don't you? LOLAngryWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 13:31
Interesting observation. It is indeed strange. I think it has to do with the nature of the music itself; Black Sabbath's music can be very menacing wheras Jethro Tull's isn't for the most part. And I'm sure it's quite rare that the average listener takes time to make a detailed analysis of the lyrics when listening to a band for the first time, the music is what counts, sort of. So if a band's music seems evil, the band is more likely to get labelled evil, regardless of the lyrics.


Edited by Philéas - September 19 2007 at 13:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 13:34
My JT favourite song, "My God", is probably one of the main culprits here. However, if you read or listen to the lyrics carefully, you'll find out that they're anything but blasphemous - in fact, they're very much pro-God, in spite of being against organised religion and the hypocrisy that often comes with it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 14:10
I agree with Ghost Rider.  Ian Anderson was railing against our immature, close-minded image of God, not God himself.  My thinking is that groups like Black Sabbath wrote about "the Devil" in order to create controversy and attract attention to themselves rather than trying to convey any "deep" or thought-provoking ideas or concepts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 15:46

I am quite aware that Ian had no problems with God himself as I said in brackets earlier

"(although I don’t believe he has anything against faith in general just the supposed problems of organized religion)."

I mean look at his Christmas album.

 

I would add upon his criticism, but that would probably topple the boat.  Jethro Tull is definitely one of my favorite bands as their messages are as relevant today as they where then and I wish more bands today would have some sort of message that is relevant in today’s society just as Tull did.  But you have to admit, next to Harry Potter, Black Sabbath and others Tull can be considered very blasphemous.  Hell, remember, the Beatles and “Bigger than Jesus” although this quote is gravely misunderstood by many, it changed laws banning Beatles music in several states and started so many angry anti-Beatles groups .  Although, today, I doubt anybody has anything against the Beatles.  But I mean, its so dumb when people all get together and spend precious time and money into either supporting or hating something, and they don't take just a little bit of time to understand what they are for or against, they just all become as sheep!

 

Chicapah, I will not argue that Black Sabbath is indeed very shallow in intellectual concepts and thought provoking ideas, but their debut didn't have anything to do with the devil and was more about  dungeons and dragon stuff, all apart from the song NIB, which again was more a song about the devil learning about love and it saving him.  Whether it is God's love or a woman's, what’s the difference?  He repelled his evil ways, great uplifting story that’s no different than any fairy tail where good triumphs over evil. They are famous not because of the lyrics or controversy, but the monster riffs that are overplayed on the radio and also because they perfected a new genre. The pioneers being Atomic Rooster of course.  Sabbath later began to focus on music that "sounded" dark and evil because that is pretty much what their shallow fan base where expecting.  Ozzy of course later began doing crazy sh*t for attention, but that was long after his Sabbath days.

 

I do admit that I like to rock the boat, but only cause that usually generates the most thought provoking ideas rather than just sitting in a room and being concurrent in a conversation about how much and why we love something.



Edited by rambaron - September 19 2007 at 15:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 16:35
Jethro Tull is not blasphemous. They are in fact pro-God and pro-Christian, but there is an obvious irreverence in their lyrics that is aimed at hypocritical Bible thumpers and false prophets.
 
One example is "Hymn 43", which is about salvation from hypocrites, "gory glory seekers who use His name in death".
 
Another example is Christmas Song, which is about the hypocrites who lose the true meaning of Christmas while being gluttonous and stingy.
 
The final and most obvious example is of course "My God", which is about what the false prophets and Bible thumpers have done to God and Jesus in the name of organized religion. Remember that Christianity is about salvation, not religion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:03
Originally posted by jimidom jimidom wrote:

The final and most obvious example is of course "My God", which is about what the false prophets and Bible thumpers have done to God and Jesus in the name of organized religion. Remember that Christianity is about salvation, not religion.


So they're in a cult.

I think MY God says it well with "I don't believe you, you've had the whole damn thing all wrong. His not the kind you have to wind up on sundays." Though aside from songs conserning religion, I never saw anything that applies to either pro or anti-god.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:11
Side two of Aqualung is about the hypocracy of the church institution not at christianity, much like Martin Luther did during the reformation, for goodness sake people read the lyrics a bit more carefully!!!



  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:29
Originally posted by Passionist Passionist wrote:

[Though aside from songs conserning religion, I never saw anything that applies to either pro or anti-god.
This is from "Christmas Song".
 
Once in Royal David's city
Stood a lonely cattle shed
Where a mother held her baby
You'd do well to remember the things He later said...
 
There is absolutely nothing ambiguous about the last line, especially when taken within the context of the whole song. It is obviously pro-Christian.


Edited by jimidom - September 19 2007 at 17:39
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:38
Originally posted by rambaron rambaron wrote:


This stumps me as Jethro Tull is arguably the most sacrilegious band that has ever existed.  So many of their songs and albums have quibbled and mocked organized religion.  Hell that was the main concept for Thick as a Brick and Aqualung and yet these where never considered blasphemous.  Harry Potter “not a big fan myself” on the other hand, a story that evolves around teachings that Jesus Christ himself have preached is so enormously hated.  While Jethro Tull blatantly blasted organized religion on their most popular albums (although I don’t believe he has anything against faith in general just the supposed problems of organized religion).

Any thoughts?



Just a wild guess but you've never heard Cradle of Filth, have you Wink?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 17:40
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Originally posted by rambaron rambaron wrote:


This stumps me as Jethro Tull is arguably the most sacrilegious band that has ever existed.  So many of their songs and albums have quibbled and mocked organized religion.  Hell that was the main concept for Thick as a Brick and Aqualung and yet these where never considered blasphemous.  Harry Potter “not a big fan myself” on the other hand, a story that evolves around teachings that Jesus Christ himself have preached is so enormously hated.  While Jethro Tull blatantly blasted organized religion on their most popular albums (although I don’t believe he has anything against faith in general just the supposed problems of organized religion).

Any thoughts?



Just a wild guess but you've never heard Cradle of Filth, have you Wink?
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Apparently not !!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 18:29
how about this song?


God Song

What on Earth are you doing, God?
Is this some sort of joke you're playing?
Is it cause we didn't pray?
Well I can't see the point of the word without the action
Are you just hot air, breathing over us and over all?
Is it fun watching us all?
Where's your son? We want him again!

And next time you send your boy down here
Give him a wife and a sexy daughter
Someone we can understand
Who's got some ideas we can use, really relate to
We've all read your rules, tried them
Learned them in school, then tried them
They're impossible rules, and you've made us look fools
Well done, God, but now please...

Don't hunt me down, for Heaven's sake!
You know that I'm only joking, aren't I?
Pardon me I'm very drunk!
But I know what I'm trying to say, and it's nearly night time
And we're still alone, waiting for something unknown, still waiting
So throw down a stone, or something!
Give us a sign, for Christ's sake!




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 20:59

BTW, when I’m calling Jethro Tull Blasphemous, I’m really being sarcastic, that’s why I said Blasphemous, the word sounds ridiculous, and makes a hot topic.

Ok I made a mystake, I should have put more of an emphasis on that fact that I do understand that Tull is not anti Faith I would call it, but rather in the words of GhostRider "against organised religion and the hypocrisy that often comes with it." as well as restricts a person's relationship with their God instead of enhancing it.

Anyways I just want to know how Christianity as brought up; nothing was mentioned about Christianity as far as I know just the institutionalization of religion.  Honestly, who in this world could disagree with anything Jesus said? Who in their right mind would dispute the messages of love and acceptance and tolerance that are the main driving force in Christianity and other Religions?  But its often forgotten cause we are all naturally greedy and selfish, its human nature, that’s why many hundred years ago a dogma was vital to combat these bad habits.  The only problem is these habits manifest itself into religion and soon we have people misusing it.  Doesn’t matter if you love God, power does corrupt.

One thing I get out of Jethro Tull is that we make the mistake of humanizing God.  God according to many of us is a “MALE” who writes books, has a son, and is so insecure he needs us to tell him how great he is all the time or else he gets pissed and smites you.  We are just lucky that in today’s age we aren’t required to pay out money for our sins or God’s blessing which was largely why Martin Luther acted.  The truth is, we can’t know god, he is not male or female, there is no way to even fathom who or what God is, it says so right in the Bible.  But then again, I can't make that claim, because I don't know either.

That quote is from the song Wind up which says "I don't believe you; you've had the whole damn thing all wrong. He’s not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays."  Is self explanatory

But this is not what the point I was trying to make, even when you look deep into Tull’s meanings, the fact is that it criticizes organized religion (not faith) (I criticize my girlfriend, doesn’t mean I hate her).  But, (and you must admit this), anytime anybody criticizes a religion, doesn’t matter if you are all for the faith, people seem to get outraged because they wouldn’t take enough time to realize that there is some truth to it and they aren’t attacking the belief itself.  Many people where outraged at Martin Luther, the smart ones said your right, I’m joining you, if I was famous in the 70s, was to go on national TV, and lay out in plain English Tull’s message, I would probably be considered by many a heretic.  If Tull, was anything like Black Sabbath in performance sound and appearance, they would definitely cause a lot of anger against them.  I’m sure if Jesus and his radical ideas of equality came back, he would be considered a heretic by the institution which Tull criticizes.  There are people in the States who are even condemned by church officials because they may have a slight disagreement over something thought by the mainstream, say the importance of the environment which again, it states in the Bible that it is important (if God made the earth and all its creatures, why don’t we worship them as a loving creation of our God? Why do we destroy them? We worship the food enough).  But then again today there are so many people who seem to be completely anti antireligious compared to the 70s; everything just seems to get diluted, and nobody really seems to bother disputing them.  Oh yes, thanks for that song hehe.

My point was that Sabbath does not even get into the topic of religion; they are a band of geeks that talk of daemons, Dragons and Wizards, why are they blasphemous?  But I’m sure that if those same people knew at the time knew that Jethro Tull had been criticizing the church, they would be condemned.  Do you honestly think that if people are critical enough to think that Black Sabbath was blasphemous?  They would bother to understand that Tull’s message was not anti faith?  It’s just a jump to conclusions because one band makes dark evil sounding music and dress in black, and the others play a flute and look like they just strolled in out of the woodwork.  They are solely judging a book by its dark gritty cover.  And BTW, when I say they, I mean a minority, but for some reason its always the small groups of people who happen to have the most coverage.  After all, you won't sell millions of books or albums if you are really hated by everybody.  I'm not trying to be critical of religion here either, just state that I think people can be quick to judge without knowledge (I can too).



Edited by rambaron - September 19 2007 at 21:42
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 22:29
Originally posted by rambaron rambaron wrote:

My point was that Sabbath does not even get into the topic of religion; they are a band of geeks that talk of daemons, Dragons and Wizards, why are they blasphemous? 



That is utterly untrue.  The tracklisting of 1989's Headless Cross:
  1. "The Gates of Hell" – 1:04
  2. "Headless Cross" – 6:15
  3. "Devil & Daughter" – 4:32
  4. "When Death Calls" – 6:41
  5. "Kill in the Spirit World" – 4:59
  6. "Call of the Wild" – 5:09
  7. "Black Moon" – 3:56
  8. "Nightwing" – 6:19
Seems like they touch upon the subject just a little bit. 




The point is, Jethro Tull were critical of certain aspects of faith, but still respectful of the issue and spiritual themselves.  Black Sabbath (by the late eighties anyways) were just a bunch of idiots trying (and succeeding to some degree!) to excite the "rebellious" youth into being fans by simply being assholes. 


Edited by rileydog22 - September 19 2007 at 22:31

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 22:38
Tull aren't blasphemous, they embrace all aspects of their culture, one of which was religion.  You want blasphemous, how about Lake's lyrics.. though frankly I love his irreverent attitude.

 ^^ ...and saying Sabbath are a "bunch of idiots" is, well, fairly idiotic










Edited by Atavachron - September 19 2007 at 22:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 22:47

Yea, but that’s in 1989,( their last significant album was in the early 80's partly because Ian Gillan joined), long after all this controversy happened, by this time, you had your death metal, black metal, goth and just about every other type of metal spewing much more fierce and hateful things.  Black Sabbath wasn’t even the same band as I said earlier; apart from Tony Lommi no former members where even in the band.  This album you have to understand is only for the true Black Sabbath freak that has to have every album, and isn’t exactly popular like many albums by bands that had their time, but should realize their time was over.  This was their newer member Tony Martin who decided to start making dark satanic overtones due to the fact he believes that religion is the cause of all these wars (I won’t argue).  There wasn’t much dispute over this album just because, by this time, nobody cared about them.

I mean, do you call the album Calling All Stations true genesis? At least I don’t.
 
Yes, I agree, don't call them idiots, sure the late 80's version was idiotic, but not the early days where they had a full roster. 
 
I stated that their debut album didn't deal with religion, not their later ones, which again, told of the fight against the devil, not for the devil, didn't take the side of the devil.  If it was offensive to talk about the devil or fighting him, Neal Morse a great model for Christianity, is also doing wrong.



Edited by rambaron - September 19 2007 at 23:04
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2007 at 23:07
Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

[QUOTE=rambaron]

My point was that Sabbath does not even get into the topic of religion; they are a band of geeks that talk of daemons, Dragons and Wizards, why are they blasphemous? 



Opps, you got me, on that quote, I forgot to add early Sabbath, like I have stated in all of my other posts, please don't told it against me.  Again, early Sabbath, in fact, up until now I just said the first album, but i'm pretty sure the second and third are the same though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2007 at 02:02
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Tull aren't blasphemous, they embrace all aspects of their culture, one of which was religion.  You want blasphemous, how about Lake's lyrics.. though frankly I love his irreverent attitude.

 ^^ ...and saying Sabbath are a "bunch of idiots" is, well, fairly idiotic



I agree that the list of titles on that album is a tad overdone, as was "Born Again" with its hideous cover - and that BS, at that time, were probably trying to go with the flow and gain a new, younger fanbase. However, the music was still great, and this we should never forget.

As to the lyrics themselves, they are nothing compared to the myriad of black metal bands that came out from the Nineties onwards... Besides being "blasphemous" (and this time in the true sense of the word), they often held political beliefs that were ten thousand times worse than praising Satan. I trust you know something about the Norwegian Black Metal Circle, their church burnings (medieval wood churches, not ugly modern buildings), and murderous actions. While Black Sabbath were more like a B-movie, those guys were for real...Cry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2007 at 08:18
As to the lyrics themselves, they are nothing compared to the myriad of black metal bands that came out from the Nineties onwards... Besides being "blasphemous" (and this time in the true sense of the word), they often held political beliefs that were ten thousand times worse than praising Satan. I trust you know something about the Norwegian Black Metal Circle, their church burnings (medieval wood churches, not ugly modern buildings), and murderous actions. While Black Sabbath were more like a B-movie, those guys were for real...Cry
[/QUOTE]
 
Yea, I don't think anything can compair with that, I was more or less talking about the 70's time period.  My dad told me that anybody who listened to black sabbath at the time, people would assume you where weird and a satanist (around here at least), this is once again, is long before even Born Again was released in the 80's with its contraversal album cover.
 
LOL, I randomly was looking on google and found a Calothic forum where they are condemning Martin Luther haha some things never die.
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