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Rob The Good View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Peter Sinfield
    Posted: March 09 2005 at 21:18
Hey all. I was wondering if many of you know much about Peter Sinfield's role in King Crimson. From what I read from the sleeves notes of ITCOTCK, it seems like he was an actual member of the band, but I think he only wrote the lyrics. Co-wrote them at that.

Was he a sort of "non-musician" member of the band, much like Brian Eno with Roxy Music?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2005 at 21:19
I think he was also the roadie who was in charge with the lighting, hence why it said words and illumination.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2005 at 21:41
His work with King Crimson was very fine. IMO though, his work with PFM and ELP was not so fine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 06:53

Originally posted by Vegetableman Vegetableman wrote:

His work with King Crimson was very fine. IMO though, his work with PFM and ELP was not so fine.

His 'work' with PFM was f*****' awful...!! 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 08:14

Actually I really liked his work with PFM... and I absolutely adore his work with ELP!!

Pete Sinfield was a non-musician for the band, and a roadie.. but he did write most of the lyrics. He's a very unusual kind of guy.. .raised by one of the Wallendas..he had somewhat of an unusual upbringing to say the least.  He's a really nice guy, if not somewhat strange these days, but he still writes some beautiful songs. Many others have recorded his stuff including Celine Dion.

Pete did learn to play guitar and he does have a solo album "Still" which I love because Greg sings on it.... and he did have his own solo concert at one point, where Greg came and sang for him.

He sent me a nice note and a song for Christmas.. so I kind of adore him...

You should check out his website... he's a pretty eclectic guy.. and its amazing some of the things he has there... He has this great long letter where he describes writing "21st Century Schizoid Man"...

http://www.songsouponsea.com/

THIS IS ELP
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 08:24

 

During the "Islands" tour, he eve ncollaborated instrumentally: in the backstage, he created sound effects on a VCS3 synthesizer, while someone esle followed his instructions regarding the stage lighting.

Regards.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 17:57

Let's not forget his insightful lyrics for the prog classic 'Land of Makebelieve' by Buck's Fizz.

(For the benefit of non UK members, Buck's Fizz were a kind of extremely low rent Brit version of Abba. I always quite fancied Cheryl Baker though.)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 18:22
Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

His 'work' with PFM was f*****' awful...!! 

 

Don't talk stupid!PFM would have very easily have not made an impact on the UK if not for Pete.

Pfm - World Became The World Cover Art
 

''The world became the world''

 

    

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 18:28
Yes they would have, with the likes of Bernardo Lanzetti
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 18:32

VegetablemanYes they would have, with the likes of Bernardo Lanzetti

 

I doubt it some how but i'd love to here you reason?

 

 

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2005 at 18:35
Chocolate Kings was much better than Photos or The World Became the World
"Mister Fripp, your music is quite different than everything else out there. In one word, how would you describe it?"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 17:57
Originally posted by Karnevil9 Karnevil9 wrote:

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

His 'work' with PFM was f*****' awful...!! 

 

Don't talk stupid!PFM would have very easily have not made an impact on the UK if not for Pete.

Pfm - World Became The World Cover Art
 

''The world became the world''

 

    

 

What impact did they make exactly? 

The best-selling PFM album in the UK was Chocolate Kings, which had nothing to do with Pete Sinfield (a coincidence??).  The other albums sold better after its impact.  However, PFM were never really a success in the UK, something that Franz Di Cioccio himself put down to their strong Italian accents!! 

Ask most British PFM fans which albums they would rather listen to, and you'll find that those peppered with Sinfield's laborious pseudo-fantasial murmurings come well below their Italian counterparts.  What really annoyed me was the blunt refusal by Sinfield to attempt any sort of translation of Pagani's original poetic lyrics on the grounds that they were "too political". 

I know that Sinfield's style of image-laden if ultimately meaningless lyrics was popular with Crimson/ELP fans at the time (I keep crossing you 3Fates, and I dont mean to - BELIEVE me I actually really like both bands ENORMOUSLY), but PFM had something much more poignant to say, and they should've been allowed to say it on their early Manticore records ( I think they trusted Sinfield out of respect for Crimson).  Thankfully, on Chocolate Kings, they did say it. 

For the record:

Pagani is a genius. 

Sinfield is a Guinness.   

"Now all the seasons run together, and the middle days are gone..."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 18:04
Originally posted by Wrath_of_Ninian Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

Originally posted by Karnevil9 Karnevil9 wrote:

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:

His 'work' with PFM was f*****' awful...!! 

 

Don't talk stupid!PFM would have very easily have not made an impact on the UK if not for Pete.

Pfm - World Became The World Cover Art
 

''The world became the world''

 

    

 

What impact did they make exactly? 

The best-selling PFM album in the UK was Chocolate Kings, which had nothing to do with Pete Sinfield (a coincidence??).  The other albums sold better after its impact.  However, PFM were never really a success in the UK, something that Franz Di Cioccio himself put down to their strong Italian accents!! 

Ask most British PFM fans which albums they would rather listen to, and you'll find that those peppered with Sinfield's laborious pseudo-fantasial murmurings come well below their Italian counterparts.  What really annoyed me was the blunt refusal by Sinfield to attempt any sort of translation of Pagani's original poetic lyrics on the grounds that they were "too political". 

I know that Sinfield's style of image-laden if ultimately meaningless lyrics was popular with Crimson/ELP fans at the time (I keep crossing you 3Fates, and I dont mean to - BELIEVE me I actually really like both bands ENORMOUSLY), but PFM had something much more poignant to say, and they should've been allowed to say it on their early Manticore records ( I think they trusted Sinfield out of respect for Crimson).  Thankfully, on Chocolate Kings, they did say it. 

For the record:

Pagani is a genius. 

Sinfield is a Guinness.   

Personally PFM had a few albums before they went to Manticore to say what they had to say, and those albums didn't even sell that well in Italy where people understood it.  Whether or not Pete should of tried to translate their lyrics into something magical or not is besides the point.  Its PFM themselves who asked for his help and who okayed the lyrics.. I know that for a fact.  So thats one area Pete can't be blamed for. 

Personally I preferred Sinfield's lyrics... I love his elfin ways... and he's really good at sticking a lot of hidden meanings in his songs... I find him sort of a puzzle... and imaginative...

THIS IS ELP
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 18:53

Both Storia Di Un Minuto and Per Un Amico topped the charts in Italy, and this despite the latter's critical hammering in the wake of Genesis' increasing success.  The albums weren't released outside of Italy until much later. 

Obviously I wasn't present at the discussion about the lyrical direction of the band, and certainly PFM were keen to break the American market through the introduction of English lyrics, but di Cioccio always seems to infer that Sinfield saw PFM as an opportunity to "continue where he left off with Crimson..." and had no intention of encompassing or even complimenting the band's political stances. There are several books which support this hypothesis, and a number of less reliable websites, one of which claims to quote di Cioccio quoting Sinfield who said:

"I'll write the lyrics and produce the boys, for I want to continue with them the discourse that I had burried with the first formation of King Crimson. I very much like the mediterranean quality in their progressive music".

(http://www.gaudela.net/pfm/index2.html)

Perhaps you could ask Pete himself, as I would be more than happy to alter this view if it is wrong, and I'd rather know from the man himself!  Does Pete actually speak Italian?

Regarding his elven ways - I dont mind fanciful lyrics from time to time, and am tolerant to a large degree with most prog nonsense, but most of the PFM converts I have made always stop when they hear The World Became The World and say, "My God, what ARE they singing about...?", and well its.......you know....

I'll put transcripts up if people genuinely dont know what I mean by this.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2005 at 19:06

Originally posted by Rob The Good Rob The Good wrote:


Was he a sort of "non-musician" member of the band, much like Brian Eno with Roxy Music?

Actually, Brian Eno was an official member of RM, he played keyboards for them.

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