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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Topic: Santana vs Mahavishnu Orchestra Posted: January 12 2008 at 16:59 |
Damn this poll is tough. I didn't realise it so much when i thought of it still, my vote goes with Santana. Caravanserai remains one of my top favourite Latin Jazz albums, and probably in my top 6 prog albums.
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2762
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:39 |
Mahavishnu beats Santana on every level by so far. Santana made some wannabe fusion in the 70's, which was good music, but not from a fusion standpoint. McLaughlin was one of the originators of the genre, he knew what he was doing. Santana just looks amatuerish in comparison.
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progismylife
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2006
Location: ibreathehelium
Status: Offline
Points: 15535
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:44 |
Santana's stuff is pretty good, but King Crimson776 just said it all.
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ProgBagel
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2819
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 17:46 |
To me, what McLaughlin did to jazz-fusion is what Fripp did to prog.
Edited by ProgBagel - January 12 2008 at 17:46
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 18:01 |
I went with Mahavishnu for pretty much what has been stated on here. I did like the Santana/McLaughlin CD in '73.
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YesFan72
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 25 2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3241
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 18:40 |
M.O. all the way!
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 18:49 |
Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.
Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.
PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!
Edited by Hercules - January 12 2008 at 18:51
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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febus
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: January 23 2007
Location: Orlando-Usa
Status: Offline
Points: 4312
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Posted: January 12 2008 at 19:13 |
''BIRDS OF FIRE''......''INNER MOUNTING FLAME''......magical albums, the holy grail of prog!
the second version of the band with Jean Luc Ponty was not as good as the first M.O. but still pleasant to my ears
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Flucktrot
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 01 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 164
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Posted: January 13 2008 at 00:03 |
Tough call!
Santana for me...but not really because of his guitar playing--I am a huge fan of Mingo on congas and the overall songwriting.
Mahavishnu John got a bit too big for his britches.
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Thank you, God of Rock, for this chance to kick ass
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Jshutt64
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2008
Location: California, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 116
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Posted: January 13 2008 at 01:50 |
Mahavishnu Orchestra, of course.
Santana is a great guitarist, don't get me wrong. But, Mahavishnu is one of the best, if not the best, fusion bands around, and as a whole, way more talented than Santana.
And, lets face it...John McLaughlin>Carlos Santana.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: January 13 2008 at 11:09 |
Hercules wrote:
Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!
| Excuse me, but you ask any jazz-head around: Latin IS jazz. And Santana is Latin music crossed with rock music, making it Latin/Jazz Rock. get your facts straight mate
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Zargus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 08 2005
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 3491
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Posted: January 13 2008 at 11:10 |
Well i never heard anything by that Mahavishnu Orchestra thing so i cant vote.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
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Posted: January 13 2008 at 14:24 |
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Teh_Slippermenz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 321
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Posted: January 13 2008 at 15:14 |
The MO.
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: January 13 2008 at 17:52 |
Hercules wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!
| Excuse me, but you ask any jazz-head around: Latin IS jazz. And Santana is Latin music crossed with rock music, making it Latin/Jazz Rock. get your facts straight mate | I do not need to ask "any jazz-head", Latin is a completely separate area from Jazz though some forms use the improvisational styles common to Jazz, but by no means all - and Santana is one who normally doesn't. If you doubt this, consult any university music text on the subject ( I recommend Ed Morales' book "the Latin Beat") but please don't quote those who merely have an opinion as authorities. I have just consulted my nephew who lectures in Popular Music at Leeds College of Music and he nearly p**sed himself laughing at your comment. | good for him, but I've played jazz all over the place: at college, jazz orchestras and small jazz groups, and we all play Latin as a style of jazz music. "Jazz" drummers play Latin as part of the "Jazz" sylibus, i know many jazz conductors and jazz musicians who state that Latin is the other side of jazz. Maynard Ferguson is a jazz-trumpeter and he specialises mainly in Latin composition, so I'm afraid I also have authoritative contacts as well. You are also disagreeing with the admins of this site as well, as they have categorised Santana under Jazz Rock/ Fusion. At the end of the day, who cares anyway. Can't it just be called "music"?
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dwill123
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4455
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Posted: January 14 2008 at 10:41 |
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2762
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Posted: January 14 2008 at 18:08 |
kibble_alex wrote:
Hercules wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Santana by a mile. Mahavishnu Orchestra is often a total mess - like most jazz fusion. Great musicians, not great music.Abraxas and Caravanserai are far above any MO albums - and Santana is a brilliant guitarist.PS Actually I misread the poll - Santana isn't jazz rock anyway so there is no comparison!!
| Excuse me, but you ask any jazz-head around: Latin IS jazz. And Santana is Latin music crossed with rock music, making it Latin/Jazz Rock. get your facts straight mate | I do not need to ask "any jazz-head", Latin is a completely separate area from Jazz though some forms use the improvisational styles common to Jazz, but by no means all - and Santana is one who normally doesn't. If you doubt this, consult any university music text on the subject ( I recommend Ed Morales' book "the Latin Beat") but please don't quote those who merely have an opinion as authorities. I have just consulted my nephew who lectures in Popular Music at Leeds College of Music and he nearly p**sed himself laughing at your comment. | good for him, but I've played jazz all over the place: at college, jazz orchestras and small jazz groups, and we all play Latin as a style of jazz music. "Jazz" drummers play Latin as part of the "Jazz" sylibus, i know many jazz conductors and jazz musicians who state that Latin is the other side of jazz. Maynard Ferguson is a jazz-trumpeter and he specialises mainly in Latin composition, so I'm afraid I also have authoritative contacts as well. You are also disagreeing with the admins of this site as well, as they have categorised Santana under Jazz Rock/ Fusion. At the end of the day, who cares anyway. Can't it just be called "music"? | Dude, admit it; Latin is not necessarily jazz, you play Latin as a style of jazz music, Santana, and many others, don't. The admins aren't the final authority either. And of course it's music, but that doesn't give you an idea of what they sound like, does it. "What genre is Santana?" "Music." "Oh yeah, that's what Mahavishnu Orchestra plays too."
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: April 05 2008 at 17:01 |
Sorry if I'm late.. Santana, perhaps not musically but fave of course. MO they're really great musically, like above said, a type of KC in prog. But Santana for me is much more listenable..
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Seltzer
Forum Groupie
Joined: February 03 2008
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 40
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Posted: April 05 2008 at 21:43 |
Santana's style is a bit repetitive but he's a good guitarist. Whereas the Mahavishnu Orchestra is absolutely mindblowing and did so much for fusion jazz. So MO it is.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29625
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Posted: April 06 2008 at 00:05 |
If you consider the entire body of work of each, I have to go with MO. Santana's had some great moments. And let's don't forget you can have both sort of, the McLaughlin/Santana album Love, Devotion, and Surrender.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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