Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Tech Talk
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Building a guitar
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedBuilding a guitar

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 12 2008 at 11:33
What's the current progress so far?
Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2008 at 11:27
No program needed except paint to resize the photo Wink
Back to Top
Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2008 at 03:47
That looks alrightThumbs%20Up What program did you use for the mock-up?
Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 05 2008 at 08:48
Hurrah the rest of my parts arrived today, I've now got almost every thing I need to build the guitar now, all I need is the vertical drill mount to help me drill all the holes correctly.

I've already managed to produce another mock-up which hopefully shows how the guitar should look better than the previous photo.




Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2008 at 10:44
Not really, I've ordered all the other parts I need but it's going to take a while for them to get here, I have decided however that with the right tools cutting the nut slot and positioning the bridge won't require me sending the parts off to a luthier/guitar tech as after reading books by Trademark and Melvyn Hiscock I feel I have enough experience and now knowledge to do the job myself.

Unfortunately now though a complete lack of spare cash for the next few weeks (waiting for my university bursary which is due to be paid this month) will mean that I can't buy the vertical drill mount I need to be able to drill the bridge mount holes properly until early April, however hopefully before then I can get the nut fitted and wire up the pickguard.

I'm also being hampered by the fact that my parents are insisting that everything bar the body be treated as a birthday present so I'm not actaully going to be allowed to touch the parts for 3 weeks or so. Angry
Back to Top
Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2008 at 06:43
Any more news lately?
Back to Top
Trademark View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2008 at 08:22
Building a 6-string bass pretty much comes down to , as you mention, altering some dimensions to accomodate more strings.  The neck has to be wider.  Of course you would also need the appropriate pickups, bridge and other hardware but most of that stuff is pretty easy to find.

The main issue with a six string bass is string tension.  Six bass guitar strings pull a lot harder on the neck than four and keeping the neck relatively flat requires a stiffer neck.  Maple is the most common wood and it is very stiff, but not enough so for six string bass necks.   Most six string basses opt for one of two reinforcing pans in the neck.  Some use two truss rods placed about an inch apart rather than one run down the center of the neck.  This give you more control over the neck adjustment, but makes balancing the adjustment of each rod a bit trickier.

The other common way of dealing with the neck stress is to place a single truss rod in the center of the neck and add a couple of carbon fiber stiffening rods (one on each side of the neck about 1/2"-3/4" from the centerline).  These carbon fiber rods are usually about 1/4" x 1/2" and are pound for pound much stronger than steel rods.  Carbon fiber is extremely light weight and effective for this purpose.  The drawback to carbon fiber is that by stiffening the neck to this degree you make the truss rod work much harder to alter the curvature of the neck thus limiting the amount of change it can have. 

Sooooo,  the builders who use carbon fiber reinforcement usually try to build a few thousandths of an inch of back bow into the neck. This way when the string tension is placed on the neck it will not pull more relief (up bow) into the neck than can easily be adjusted with very small adjustments of the rod (or better yet no adjustment) if all works out according to plan.


Edited by Trademark - February 26 2008 at 08:29
Back to Top
rileydog22 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: August 24 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 8844
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2008 at 18:42
Out of curiosity, Trademark, how much would I have to differ from the guitar-building instruction books if I wanted to build a six-string bass?  Would it be much more than a wider fretboard and wider nut slots?  

Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2008 at 08:17
Your one and Make Your Own Guitar by Melvyn Hiscock.

The book you wrote was the one that arrived today it's already been very useful, as it helped me figure out how to find where the nut slot should be cut.
Back to Top
Trademark View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2008 at 08:05
I've never seen one done like that before, but using that slot as the edge guide does at least make some sense.  That would mean that when you widen the slot you'll do all your cutting in the direction of the headstock and not toward the first fret. Should work out fine. 

Just out of curiosity, what books did you order?  I was Stewart-MacDonald's Tech Support guy for five years so I'm pretty familiar with all the books out there (including the one I wrote of course) and I'll be glad to help in any way I can.


Edited by Trademark - February 25 2008 at 08:09
Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 25 2008 at 06:10
Well I've got a small update,

I've figured out how where the nut will have to be installed and the fret sized slot simply marks where the edge of the nut should be. I don't know why the neck I've bought doesn't come with a precut nut slot but it's not a big problem.

The first of the 2 book I've ordered has arrived, hopefully the second will get here in the next couple of days as I intend to read both books from cover to cover before I even consider picking up any tools.
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 64551
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2008 at 03:58
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

Many years ago I built a semi-acoustic using the cheapest parts available, hand-made pickups and wood from old bits of furniture à la Brian May. Being without proper plans, it was based upon measurements taken from an old Encore guitar (the only one I dared take to pieces Wink) needless to say it played as badly as the Encore, but with a marginally warmer sound. OuchLOL
 


still the best way to get to know something Big%20smile


Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2008 at 03:52
Thanks for the advice.

To clarify the nut slot issue, there is no nut slot on the neck what there is however is a slot the size of a fret slot where the nut slot should be.

EDIT: following your advice I've also ordered a couple of books to help me though everything.


Edited by N Ellingworth - February 23 2008 at 04:07
Back to Top
Trademark View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2008 at 23:28

The body in your pic is not alder, it is ash.

"That neck doesn't even fit in the neck pocket at the moment I need to get the sand paper out and increase the width of the pocket by about 0.5mm, still that means I can get a really tight fit which will make the neck nice and secure."

Don't use sandpaper for this job. You need a flat file. Sandpaper will not allow you to keep the walls of the neck pocket perpendicular to the face of the body. If the neck to body joint is not fitted well you'll lose a substantial amount of sustain and your neck will be more susceptible to string tension making more frequent set-up adjustments necessary. A flat file about 1/2" wide is the best tool for the job.

Also when filing the pocket to fit the neck NEVER EVER pull the file (or the sandpaper if you choose to ignore my advice) upward. The reason the neck won't fit is that the body finish has formed a small "lip" around the opening. The same thing happens around all the body routs when the finish is sprayed on. If you pull upward when removing this "finish lip" you can chip the finish. Always file either downward from the top to the bottom of the pocket or lengthwise from the heel end to the back of the neck pocket cavity.

"I've got several small files hanging around so I'm going to cut the slot with them, thankfully the neck has a small slot where the nut is supposed to go so all I have to do is widen it."


STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!!

On a factory neck like that there is NO WAY you should need to widen the nut slot (your pic isn't clear enough to be sure, but it looks to me like the slot is there and properly cut to size already). Since you're using the Wilky trem you don't need (and should not use) a locking nut. The Wilkinson is designed for use with a standard nut and tuners.

Your nut slot will have been cut to Fender spec of .125" (1/8") at the factory. If your nut blank is wider than the slot you should thin the nut blank to fit the slot in the neck. Keep in mind that widening the slot may well change the overall length of your strings (from contact point on the bridge to contact point on the nut it should be 25.5" for standard Fender scale) and you REALLY don't want that to happen.

The string contact point on the nut should be right at the edge of the nut where it leaves the fretboard. The string slots should slope gently down and away from that point so that the string can only have one true contact point. Flat bottomed slots are one of the beginner's most common mistakes and they make proper intonation impossible. When played open, the string makes contact at the edge of the nut nearest the tuners and when fretted it is pulled down at the fretboard edge. The difference in string length then is 1/8" from edge to edge across the nut.  If you alter the scale length even by even a mm you'll never get the intonation right.

Stew-mac has some pre-slotted (starter slots) nut blanks in graphite and a synthetic material called Tusq that should literally drop right into the factory slot. Also, don't glue your nut in the slot (another common beginner error).  if you make a mistake filing the slots you can't remove the bad one without damaging the fretboard.  A snug fit and string pressure are all that's needed to keep the nut in place.


Bridge Placement:
I'm assuming a scale length of standard Fender 25.5" for this neck and for the body. The neck and body do need to "agree" on this point.  Place some masking tape (preferably that blue stuff that peels off easily) on the body between the bridge rout and the back edge of the pickup opening. With the neck installed (screws and all), measure from the fretboard edge of the nut slot down the neck and onto the body 25.5" and make a mark. Do this from each edge (low E and High E string) of the nut. Connect those marks on the body and extend the line to about 3-1/2"- 4" long on your tape. Place the bridge in the cavity (like you did for the pic.) so that the string contact point on the saddles is lined up with your 25.5" mark. When you have it aligned properly mark the positions for the tremolo mounting studs. Remember, it is not the studs that need to be at 25.5", it is the string contact point of the saddles.

When you're ready to drill the holes for the stud bushings DO NOT use a hand drill. These holes must be perpendicular to the surface of the guitar so you'll need a drill press.  Even a slight angle on this hole with a Wilkinson trem will not allow the bridge to float properly.  Once again, your finish is at risk. Drill bits chew and LIFT material to make the hole. If you just plow in with the bit you will probably chip the finish around the bushing. Run the drill in reverse while applying pressure with the handle of the press.  Running the bit backwards cuts through the brittle finish without the lifting and chipping. Once you're through the finish, change the drill to forward speed and finish the hole. Be careful of the depth. Some studs don't work with really deep holes.

When putting the threaded bushings into the holes you also run the risk of finish damage. Don't pound them in.  The fit should be too snug to press in by hand and it is tempting to reach to the hammer. DON'T DO IT.  Use the drill press to add leverage and press the bushing into the hole.  I place the bushing into the hole and press by hand until it is seated. Then I heat the bushing with a soldering iron and immediately press the bushing in with the drill press head. The heat softens the finish just a bit and allows the bushing to just slide right into the hole. Now you're ready to remove the tape. The whole process should take less than an hour.


Congrats on assembling this instrument. When you're ready to take the next step and build one check out my book.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Books,_plans/Building_and_repair:_Guitar,_electric/Electric_Guitar_Construction.html

or

http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Guitar-Construction-First-Time-Builder/dp/1574241257/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203740800&sr=8-1

It'll take you step by step through the whole process. It's not nearly as daunting as you suggest.  Just do your homework and get a good guide book like the one I shamelessly recommended above.


Edited by Trademark - February 23 2008 at 00:37
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2008 at 21:36
Originally posted by N Ellingworth N Ellingworth wrote:

I bought the neck complete (bar nut and tuners), there's no way I'm going to attempt to fret the neck myself as I know how difficult it can be.

If this project goes well I think I'm definitely going to be building more guitars and I will be modifying all my current ones too as I've got a few things I want to change on all of them particularly my Steinberger which really should have active pickups in my opinion but is stuck with passive ones.
One mod I've always fancied having a crack at is an infinite sustainer pick-up... like an ebow but across all six strings ... the principle is easy enough ... a small battery powered amp feeds the pickup signal back to some form of excitation coil to vibrate the strings (another pick-up perhaps... but haven't done the maths yet, I think a standard pickup may have too many turns on the coil so may have to be re-wound).
What?
Back to Top
Petrovsk Mizinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: December 24 2007
Location: Ukraine
Status: Offline
Points: 25210
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2008 at 20:55
Just wondering, what fretwire are you going to use and what fretboard radius will you have?
Back to Top
Statutory-Mike View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 15 2008
Location: Long Island
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2008 at 14:36
I wish I had your patience..I tried rebuilding a BC Rich Warlock I had lying around....I wound up smashing it against a wall LOL I can laugh now..but when it happened, It was not so easy
Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2008 at 08:35
I bought the neck complete (bar nut and tuners), there's no way I'm going to attempt to fret the neck myself as I know how difficult it can be.

If this project goes well I think I'm definitely going to be building more guitars and I will be modifying all my current ones too as I've got a few things I want to change on all of them particularly my Steinberger which really should have active pickups in my opinion but is stuck with passive ones.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2008 at 07:28
It's looking good Nick! Did you cut and fit your own frets or buy a pre-fitted fingerboard?  I found that the singular most difficult thing to do - basically you have 22 chances to get it wrong and ruin the whole thing.
 
Back in the 60s when I first told my Dad I wanted to play guitar he made me a half-size acoustic, but as he could only scrounge 4 machine heads he made it a 4 string, which as a six-year old wanting to be John Lennon, I found difficult to match up to the chord-charts in Bert Weedon's Play In A Day, so (much to his disappointment) it remained unplayed.
 
Many years ago I built a semi-acoustic using the cheapest parts available, hand-made pickups and wood from old bits of furniture à la Brian May. Being without proper plans, it was based upon measurements taken from an old Encore guitar (the only one I dared take to pieces Wink) needless to say it played as badly as the Encore, but with a marginally warmer sound. OuchLOL
 
Knowing that I would never be able to build a "real" guitar that I would be happy with, my next project (should I ever get around to starting it) is to make an electric Appalachian dulcimer - sadly I cannot find the CAD designs I have been working on, but basically it is a headless solid body design using Steinberger machine heads. But what I really want to build is an electric 'cello...
 
What?
Back to Top
N Ellingworth View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 17 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1324
Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 22 2008 at 05:06
I've got several small files hanging around so I'm going to cut the slot with them, thankfully the neck has a small slot where the nut is supposed to go so all I have to do is widen it.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4567>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.102 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.