Examples of Dream Theater's influences

The song Panic Attack off of Octavarium sounds too much like Muse for comfort. particularly in the lyrics and bass lines. straight off of Absolution. its a great cover song though . I walk beside you is some kind of U2 copy, especially the chorus. that whole CD is loaded with these examples, though thats really the only time i think they blatantly and shamelessly steal an artists sound. but hey, as someone famous once said, good artists borrow, great artists steal. dream theater's only problem in that regard is they didnt make that "stolen sound" completely their own. 

keiser willhelm wrote: The song Panic Attack off of Octavarium sounds too much like Muse for comfort. particularly in the lyrics and bass lines. straight off of Absolution. its a great cover song though . I walk beside you is some kind of U2 copy, especially the chorus. that whole CD is loaded with these examples, though thats really the only time i think they blatantly and shamelessly steal an artists sound. but hey, as someone famous once said, good artists borrow, great artists steal. dream theater's only problem in that regard is they didnt make that "stolen sound" completely their own.

Honestly, p0mt3, go and look at the hundreds of previous threads ripping DT for so-called 'plagiarism', or if that isn't enough, read the many reviews dealing with the subject. It's been done to death.

The answer to all this tosh is very simple. DT are a generic prog-metal band: naturally they sound like much else out there. I can think of a few much clearer than any you've mentioned (their use of a musical phrase from 'Blackened' for example), but to say, for example, that there's something to criticise in that the beginning of 'Octavarium' sounds like 'SOYCD' is to completely misunderstand the nature of plagiarism, in my view. 'Sounding like' is not 'almost exact copies'. I suggest that perhaps it's your ear with the problem, not their music.

Part of your musical education ought to be hearing and understanding the subtle differences between one piece of music and another. For example, you said in your review of 'The Bedlam in Goliath that 'This is nothing but sensless (sic) noise that never lets up.' Other people can hear music when they listen to that album (whether they like it or not is, of course, the subject fo the review). Perhaps you might better apply your listening skills to actually hearing the music than trying to find similarities between one band and another.

Yes, I'm a little burned. This is because it's too easy to be negative about this or that. I'm looking for ProgArchives to be a place where reviewers and posters give a little thought to their pronouncements.

The beginning of Solitary Shell comes dangerously close to the beginning on Solsbury Hill in tempo and chords (not to mention they're both acoustic guitars). :D

Edited by Avantgardehead - March 01 2008 at 04:28

their last album opens like The Spirit Of Radio by Rush opens...

I think one off DT greatest gifts is blending several musical styles together in their OWN stile. Yes you can say: I here Muse in this song, or this is a Floyd sound, but if you can read the notes you can tell it's deffinitly not Muse or Pink Floyd. That's not plagiarism, that's just a way of looking at making music. Every musician blends his influences and ads his own share of creativity to it. DT does that, and wants us to hear that, see it as a musical joke, or a tribute too their favourite bands. IT'S NOT STEALING FROM THEM!!! I can get kinda mad at you 'I don't like what ever DT does' suckers. If you think you can do it better, do it. And till that time.. shut up..

oh brother... while I'd be first to flame throw DT....

where as other groups 'show' their influences... is DT 'ripping them off' by showing theirs.  Not exactly phrased the right way.

p0mt3 wrote:   Some examples of what I am talking about:   Rudess' keyboard mini-solo in "Solitary Shell" is almost note-for-note like Rick Wakeman's second keyboard mini-solo in "And You and I". (I adore both songs, by the way) Sorry, dont agree with this at all, they have completely different feels to them.   LaBrie's singing style in the beginning of "The Spirit Carries On" is way too close to Roger Waters' vocal style on "The Wall" album for comfort. Not even close, Waters has a very distinct style to his singing which LaBrie has never, and probably could never, get close to properly imitating. Rudess at one point in the same song hit an organ chord that is ripped straight out of "Brain Damage". Wow, one chord....   Also, the guitar solo at the end of this very same song is awfully darn close to the end of Steve Rothery's "Easter" solo. No, Rothery and Petrucci have very different playing sttles, the solo's sound nothing alike.   Again, Labrie imitates almost note-for-note a Waters voice flourish in the song "Goodnight Kiss". Think about it. When LaBrei sings the line, "Are you lonely without Mommy's love?", think of when Waters on the Wall sings, "Oooooh, baby, babe, when I pick up the phone . . . ". Not too hard to see the similarities, is it? Read my earlier comment on LaBrie singing.   Okay, maybe it is just me, but if those are only SOME of the examples, why is it that Dream Theater are considered such influencial artists, but a genuinely original group like Marillion get's accused of copying Genesis? Dream Theater had a distinctive feel all of their own on every album up to Six Degrees... and are one of the original prog metal bands, crtainly the most succesful.  DT are in their with Iron Maiden and Metallica as majore influences on many prog metal bands, certainly in the 90's. The Marillion/Genesis comparisons are made by people who dont look beyond the superficial, rather ironic for prog, that, dont you think?   Don't misunderstand, I LOVE alot of Dream Theater's work, even the songs I mentioned, but with all that skill, you'd think they could bury their influences a bit more, wouldn't you? And have a little more, freshness and originality to their work? I dunno, what say you? Any other examples you can think of? Any of my examples seem unfair or incorrect to you? Feel free to express your feelings on either matter. I'm not slamming DT, I'm just pointing out that they are NOT the next Yes or Pink Fkoyd, they are not THE prog band of today. They are very good, and I respect them, but they don't have enough uniqueness about them to be looked at as a revolutionary band, in my view.

I dont agree with many of your examples at all (edited out the ones I cant comment on). However, thats not to say that DT dont openly show and admit their influences, but unfortunatly its become considerably more blatent on their last three albums, particularly Octavarium, which suffers badly as a result.

i think they have no other choice personally, as pretty much everything has been done before in the wide world of prog. At least they are trying, and since when does it matter that they are ripping off another band's idea? Classical composers do it all the time, but i don't see you having the balls to sl*g them off. If you enjoyed the original idea, then why can't you just see through the heavy influence and just enjoy the newer version the same? I think it's ridiculous personally.

Almost the end in "the dance of eternity" has an obvious part of Rush's "SPirit of Radio"

"Never Enough" and "prophets of war" are songs infkuented by Muse